Encounters: The UFO Phenomenon, Exposed!/Encounters - The UFO Phenomenon, Exposed (1995).iso/altalien/alt22.txt

Internet Message Format | 1995-10-20 | 614KB

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From: [e-mail] (Albert Peter Michael)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: October 12, 1992
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 1 Mar 92 19:45:42 GMT
Organization: Junior, IM - H&SS Track, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Lines: 4

Can someone please explain the significance of this date?

Thanks,
Al
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From: [e-mail] (Geoff McCaughan)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 28 Feb 92 12:11:49 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Equinox Network CHCH NZ (Node SATORI)
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<[e-mail]> writes:

> We should also remember that faces in rocks also occur on the Earth without
> the help of intelligence.  I believe the place is called "The Man In The
> Mountain" in New Hampshire.  Its a natural rock outcrop that looks very
> like an old man's face...

Yeah! There's a rock outcrop up-country from here a bit that looks *just
like* a pile of dogshit. Why aren't these guys getting exited about it
too?

| Geoff - Sysop Equinox (equinox.gen.nz) [phone] (4 Lines)
| Email:  [e-mail]
|         "If I post something lucid, is that satorial eloquence?"
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From: [e-mail] (Geoff McCaughan)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,sci.space,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Dreamland
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 2 Mar 92 05:52:46 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
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[e-mail] ( Tom Chapin ) writes:

> Oh.  So which claims are ordinary and which are extraordinary is
> not something that can be decided with scientific objectivity, but
> only with biased subjectivity.  Thank you.  I was wondering how
> scientists decided such things.  Turns out to be exactly the same
> way as those they claim to oppose.

Yeah, scientists are really just a bunch of subjectively minded
dirtbags. Now that you've discovered this I guess you won't be
interested in polluting the pure undefiled discipline of astrology by
dragging it down to the same level. [Sigh] I suppose you won't be posting
to this newsgroup anymore either...

Please say it's true.

[ 8-) 8-) for the you-know-what impaired ]

| Geoff - Sysop Equinox (equinox.gen.nz) [phone] (4 Lines)
| Email:  [e-mail]
|         "If I post something lucid, is that satorial eloquence?"
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From: [e-mail] (Iain Jameson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: The Shriek of the Looney --Part One--
Message-ID: <ijameson.699510457@adelphi>
Date: 2 Mar 92 04:27:37 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <ijameson.699156562@adelphi> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Lines: 18
Nntp-Posting-Host: adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au

[e-mail] (barry.o.olson) writes:

>Damn, my reference, _Complete and Comprehensive history of the
>Inter-Galactic Coffee and Croissant Wars of the 3rd Nebula_ by
>Reambut Doobtwister ISBN 009 435 800 4941-000 000 000.243 000.
>This guy went out of his way in the introduction to disavow any
>connection to Reptoids, and disclaimed himself too. Who can you
>trust? Cost me 1400 zekebots too!

Well, you have only yourself to blame.
The Ovornians of Ovor III have written, in my
opinion, the most comprehensive history of
these wars titled "Shit! Let's get out of here."
The Reptoids also wrote a book on the subject, but
it did not sell all that well. It's title is
"1001 uses for decaf".

Iain.
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From: [e-mail] (Mark Robert Thorson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.pagan,alt.paranormal,talk.religion.newage
Subject: Re: Creating Peace On Earth by 2000 !
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 2 Mar 92 04:19:13 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 13
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4749 alt.pagan:13235 alt.paranormal:4557 talk.religion.newage:9571

>      If at midday in your time zone that entire slice,
> one-twenty-fourth of your planet, is focused for one minute in
> meditation on world peace - and then the next slice, and the next
> slice, all the way around your planet, around and around and around,
> day after day - you will actually generate an electromagnetic momentum
> that will almost literally spin you, before you know it, into fourth
> density, into synchronicity all around you.

Don't bother.  I'm praying for a big war, so my prayer cancels yours.
Plus, I'm using the idle time on a network of over two thousand
SUN WORKSTATIONS to repeat my prayers 1,000,000 times per minute!
This program is running around the clock, every hour of every day!
Against this, your prayers don't have a chance.  Waste of time.
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From: [e-mail] (Cameron Randale Bass)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: PLANETCOM
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 2 Mar 92 04:35:34 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: University of Virginia
Lines: 23

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Raven Tengu of Kyoto) writes:
>
>                                    The technology for
>hand held lasers driven by power supplies that only weigh
>200 pounds has existed for twenty years or more. DARPA
>builds them and they have all the necessary capabilities she
>is overawed with.

     200 pounds?  DARPA is behind the times.  They'd better
     sneak over to Brookstone for their lasers with power supplies
     under 2 ounces.  (Of course, those boys over at DARPA must
     be getting extremely large biceps by now, what with lugging
     those babies to conferences).

                                dale bass

     P.S.   I have six lasers at home with power supplies under two
     pounds.  Am I eligible for DARPA research money?
--
C. R. Bass                                           [e-mail]
Department of Mechanical and Aerospace Engineering
University of Virginia
Charlottesville, Virginia                            [phone]
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From: [e-mail] (Cameron Randale Bass)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.pagan,alt.paranormal,talk.religion.newage
Subject: Re: Creating Peace On Earth by 2000 !
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 2 Mar 92 06:56:41 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: University of Virginia
Lines: 27
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Mark Robert Thorson) writes:
>>      If at midday in your time zone that entire slice,
>> one-twenty-fourth of your planet, is focused for one minute in
>> meditation on world peace - and then the next slice, and the next
>> slice, all the way around your planet, around and around and around,
>> day after day - you will actually generate an electromagnetic momentum
>> that will almost literally spin you, before you know it, into fourth
>> density, into synchronicity all around you.
>
>Don't bother.  I'm praying for a big war, so my prayer cancels yours.
>Plus, I'm using the idle time on a network of over two thousand
>SUN WORKSTATIONS to repeat my prayers 1,000,000 times per minute!
>This program is running around the clock, every hour of every day!
>Against this, your prayers don't have a chance.  Waste of time.

     Shoot, you must be running on old Suns.  Mine run much faster
     than 1 MPM (megaprayers per minute).

                                dale bass



--
C. R. Bass                                           [e-mail]
Department of Mechanical and Aerospace Engineering
University of Virginia
Charlottesville, Virginia                            [phone]
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From: [e-mail] (Clark Matthews)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: UFO Video-Photo-Document Part2
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 1 Mar 92 05:42:00 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (newsout1.26)
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In a message to All <28 Feb 92 12:18> Steve Urich wrote:

 SU> I'm surprised you didn't get any UFO junk from them I'm sure you did.
 SU> I bought a book out of a magazine,
 SU> somehow they got my last name mispelled.
 SU> So everytime I see my last name mispelled that way I know it was Junk mail

Sounds like these UFO vendors have discovered the Wonderful World of List Rental!  :-)

 SU> I think they might have turned to NewAge `warez' :-).

"Go where the money is", eh?  They're not alone -- a lot of UFO researchers seem to have headed off in the same direction.

 SU> Book Brokers
 SU> P.O. Box 13924
 SU> Orlando, FLA 32859

Thanks!  I'll be sure to misspell my name to see who they're selling their list to.

 SU> Examined by an eminent IBM scientist utilizing an electron scanning
 SU> microscope, an unseen world appears through the lens to reveal the amazing
 SU> properties of the tiny fragments. Observe the laboratory analysis as it
 SU> opens the many secrets of the alien
 SU> metal. Hear the astonished voice of the
 SU> scientists an the mysteries unveil... discover the unusual combination of
 SU> metals... the unique purity of substance... and the strange bonding of
 SU> material which is impossible to achieve on our planet! These and other

Hoooo-boy. I can hear Doktor Vogel now...

 SU> The picture of the Alien looks like a real bad Xerox photo copy of
 SU> something :-). I can only go by
 SU> the dimensions of the body and from
 SU> what seems to be a dwarf with long arms a large carcas torso and
 SU> short legs.

That sounds like the stills I have on my BBS!  The GIF files I have are pretty good quality, but low-res (320x200).  Nasty looking little thing, isn't it?  Like you I have no idea what it could be...

 SU> No Problem! Let the Net know if you get
 SU> a catalog, maybe there will be some
 SU> new stuff available.

Will do!

Best,
  Clark



--
Clark Matthews - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]
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From: [e-mail] (Clark Matthews)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: How about some GIFs? Gifs
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 1 Mar 92 05:47:00 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (newsout1.26)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:107/816 - The Wrong Num, Jersey City NJ
Lines: 31

In a message to All <28 Feb 92 12:18> Jon Noring wrote:

 JN> From: [e-mail] (Jon Noring)
 JN> Date: 27 Feb 92 22:32:12 GMT
 JN> Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)
 JN> Message-ID: <cknhn=[e-mail]>
 JN> Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

 JN> Clark, I tried to e-mail you, but it bounced.

Hi Jon.  First of all sorry for the bounce -- I access this conference through a gateway at ParaNet Alpha in Colorado.  My local FidoNet UUCP site has all sorts of problems and I practically never get mail from it.

I'm still unclear about addressing in this net -- I've sent out a lot of messages but have just recently started getting replies.  Maybe it's an addressing problem ... or maybe it's my breath.  I dunno.  ;-)

Best bet is to reply here, because I do see everything in the conference.

 JN> Would it be possible to post these GIFs to Usenet?  Maybe some of the
 JN> bio-scientist types who read Usenet
 JN> could identify it if it is terrestrial.

I could UUENCODE a couple of them and post them here, yes.  I shall do so within a day or two, so anyone with UUDECODE and a .GIF viewer/printer should be able to look at the ugly little bugger & see if it looks familiar.

Best,
  Clark



--
Clark Matthews - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]
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From: [e-mail] (Clark Matthews)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Mummy Dearest
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 1 Mar 92 05:45:00 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (newsout1.26)
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In a message to All <28 Feb 92 12:18> Steve Urich wrote:

 SU> From: [e-mail] (Steve Urich)
 SU> Date: 27 Feb 92 21:20:11 GMT
 SU> Organization: Beyonet Network
 SU> Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
 SU> Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

 SU>        Here is another quick Xerox copy of an article about Dead E.T.
 SU>        Specimens.

Steve, where did this article come from?

Some of the most exciting paelogical, archaeological and anthropological specimens in the world are in the Berliner Staatsmuseum in the former East Germany (old Archaeopteryx lives there, for instance).  So this anomalous mummy isn't necessarily implausible.

Like to hear more about where this came from, though.  Many thanks.

Best,
  Clark



--
Clark Matthews - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]
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From: [e-mail] (jcj)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Greys,Reptillians,Underground Bases and Planetary Control
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 2 Mar 92 14:56:53 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (News)
Organization: Wazmodyne Industries
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Eric Defonso) writes:
>
>[unbelievable amount of crack-induced blather
> about military/alien/tooth-fairy takeover of the world deleted...]
>
>>-* Don Allen *-               // Only   | Are you ready for SETI?
>
>Does this guy actually make a living writing this stuff? Maybe he's
>smarter than I thought =-)

No, Don posts from a variety of sources.  Whether he believes what
he posts is unknown.  What I can't believe is that he might actually
be *paying* to get this stuff.  He also claimed to have had a CEII
but has never posted any details.  As he says, draw your own
conclusions.
--
              [e-mail]
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From: [e-mail] (Steve Timpson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: October 12, 1992
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 2 Mar 92 14:11:38 GMT
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Lines: 14


In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Albert Peter Michael) writes...
>Can someone please explain the significance of this date?
>
>Thanks,
>Al

        I think  some  believe  that the US Gov'ment is going to announce
        the existance of ET's on this date.

        Also there is  yet  "ANOTHER"  religious  group (in Denver) which
        claims that the "Second Coming" will occur sometime around then.

        Steve Food_for_the_Grays
Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!uknet!glasgow!jack
From: [e-mail] (Jack Campin)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: FILE: Orvotron Newsletter for Mar-April 92 - Part 2
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 2 Mar 92 16:07:44 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Jack Campin)
Organization: COMANDOS Project, Glesga Yoonie
Lines: 33

[e-mail] (Don Allen) wrote in alt.conspiracy:
> As I do not have a great amount of time available to pursue follow-ups
> exclusively, comments to me should be directed to [e-mail]
> in mail.

Translation: "I am an inadequate fantasist who can't deal with public debate
but I'll ram my bullshit down the throats of a world audience anyway".

I asked Don Allen (last year) to provide a source for the Brighton (UK)
reference in his table of UFO sightings, so I could look it up in local
reference libraries.  No such source was forthcoming.  If he was lying
about that one, why should you believe him on the others?


> A  PHOTON  BAND was  discovered  in  outer  space in 1961 by means of
> satellite born instruments.

It wasn't.  Photons don't form bands by themselves.  The only force that
can hold a photon in a confined region is the gravitational field round a
black hole.  Black holes weren't even hypothesized, still less discovered,
in 1961, and there is no way the photons orbiting them can be observed
directly from Earth, by satellite or any other means.  What people *did*
discover around then was the Van Allen belt, which is a band of *protons*
(mostly) held in place by the Earth's magnetic field.

Somehow it doesn't come as a surprise that saucerheads could erect a
religion on not being able to tell the difference.

--
--  Jack Campin    room G092, Computing Science Department, Glasgow University,
17 Lilybank Gardens, Glasgow G12 8RZ, Scotland   TEL: [phone] x6854 (work)
INTERNET: [e-mail] or via nsfnet-relay.ac.uk    FAX: [phone]
BANG!net: via mcsun and ukc      BITNET: via UKACRL     UUCP: [e-mail]
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: crop circles
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 2 Mar 92 16:32:51 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Lines: 25
Nntp-Posting-Host: gold.colorado.edu

In a letcure on Feb. 27, 92, in colorado, LInda Moulton Howe, award-winning TV
producer and author of "strange Harvest", book about cattle mutilations
seemingly connected with UFOs, gave updated infor on ENglish crop circles. On
July 16, 91 a 410-foot diameter pictograph appeared in Marlborough, England,
between 10 p.m. and 6 a.m., the so-called "geometry lesson." It was from this
one that astronomer Gerald Hawkins derived the theorems, which he says relate
to the Fibonacci Series. (named for 12th century Itlian mathematician Leonardo
Fibonacci, the series is the unending sequence where each term is the sum of
its two predecessors: i.e., 1,1,2,3,5,8,21,34...It shows propostions
determining the structure of a variety of natural forms: pinecones, nautilus
shells, distance of planets from Sun in our solar system, etc.).

Two days after "the geometry lesson" appeared, German observers in the field
got a night video of luminous disk-like object moving over the pictograph a few
feet off ground -- its size variable, decreasing to tennis-ball sice then
disappearing. Howed showed a copy of the video.

One month after "the geometry lesson," a crop circle appeared in a separate
location in England identical to a Mandelbrot Set (plate #188 in "Fractal
Geometry of Nature," by Benoit Mandelbrot, W.H.Freeman Co, 1982).

Interesting that we sent into space the little metal plaques engraved with man,
woman, solar system; and what comes back is 12th century proportional theorems
and 20th century science of choas, Fibonacci and Mandelbrot! Whoever is doing
the crop circles is clearly well up on their (our) math.
Path: ns-mx!uunet!spool.mu.edu!mixcom!jjwwjj
From: [e-mail] (Robotic Systems)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: OCT. 12, '92: COLUMBUS?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 2 Mar 92 18:40:57 GMT
Organization: Milwaukee Internet Xchange BBS, Milwaukee, WI U.S.A.
Lines: 13

Isn't Oct. 12, 1992, the 500th anniv. of Columbus discovering America?

Also, I have seen a car driving around my hometown saying the world
will end on Oct. 28th, 1992. Yikes!



--
===============================================================================
ROBOTIC SYSTEMS, INC.                                           CLINT LASKOWSKI
P. O. Box 552                                                    [phone]
Cudahy, Wisconsin  53110-0552                                 [e-mail]
===============================================================================
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From: [e-mail] (Daniel A Ashlock)
Newsgroups: alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Dispassionate Scientific Discussion
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 2 Mar 92 19:49:21 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Daniel A Ashlock)
Organization: Iowa State University
Lines: 16
Xref: ns-mx alt.paranormal:4561 alt.alien.visitors:4760 sci.skeptic:21267

In article <[e-mail]>,
[e-mail] ( Tom Chapin ) writes:
> >You've got your head shoved so far up your as[s?], you can't see daylight.
>
> This must be some of that scientific objectivity in discussion I've
> been hearing so much about...the mark of true science...

   You fancy yourself a dispassionate scientist?

>          tom chapin                [e-mail]

   I don't speak German with Gerbils or English with Elephants.


Dan
[e-mail]
Path: ns-mx!uunet!van-bc!ubc-cs!mprgate.mpr.ca!mprgate.mpr.ca!spani
From: [e-mail] (Leonard Spani)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: October 12, 1992
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 2 Mar 92 19:51:24 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors
Organization: MPR Teltech Ltd., Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Lines: 29

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Steve Timpson) writes:
|>
|> In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Albert Peter Michael) writes...
|> >Can someone please explain the significance of this date?
|> >
|> >Thanks,
|> >Al
|>
|>         I think  some  believe  that the US Gov'ment is going to announce
|>         the existance of ET's on this date.
|>
|>         Also there is  yet  "ANOTHER"  religious  group (in Denver) which
|>         claims that the "Second Coming" will occur sometime around then.
|>
|>         Steve Food_for_the_Grays


It is also the start of the big SETI projects set to commemorate the 500
year anniversery of Columbus "discovering" a new world.

(October 12th *is* Columbus day isn't it? - I'm Canadian, eh ;^)



--
***********************************************************************
| Leonard E. Spani      |       //!?\\         | (disclaimer-p)       |
| [e-mail]  |       \\?!//         | t                    |
***********************************************************************
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From: [e-mail] (Chris Rutkowski)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: crop circles
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 2 Mar 92 20:38:01 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada
Lines: 10

Yes, the British "Euclidean circles" are interesting, BUT you should be
aware that the Mandelbrot formation is largely thought to be a hoax.
Furthermore, many people who have viewed the video of the "disc" over
the field think that it looked more like a piece of chaff or paper
being carried on the wind.

--
Chris Rutkowski - [e-mail]
Royal Astronomical Society of Canada
University of Manitoba - Winnipeg, Canada
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From: [e-mail] (Brian 'Rev P-K' Siano)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: October 12, 1992
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 2 Mar 92 23:12:54 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (The Cellar BBS)
Organization: The Cellar BBS and public access system
Lines: 30

[e-mail] (Steve Timpson) writes:

>
> In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Albert
> >Can someone please explain the significance of this date?
> >
> >Thanks,
> >Al
>
>         I think  some  believe  that the US Gov'ment is going to announce
>         the existance of ET's on this date.
>
>         Also there is  yet  "ANOTHER"  religious  group (in Denver) which
>         claims that the "Second Coming" will occur sometime around then.
>
>         Steve Food_for_the_Grays

Actually, I have several flyers from this quasi-Christian sect (based in
korea) that claims the Rapture will happen in October of 1992. I wish I had
the address in front of me; the stuff's pretty funny, and collectors could
use some good bulldada.


Brian "Rev. P-K" Siano
[e-mail]
Organizer of the Delaware Valley Skeptics (though opinions posted are my own,
and not representative).
"Not only does Bush have a depression on his hands, now he's got this self
pitying, pathologically lying pornofreak on the Supreme Court." -- Robert Bly,
in conversation with Deborah Tannen.
Path: ns-mx!uunet!wupost!darwin.sura.net!Sirius.dfn.de!zrz.tu-berlin.de!cs.tu-berlin.de!news.netmbx.de!zelator!leo
From: [e-mail] (Stefan Hartmann)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Please repost realufo.gif picture to UFO-FTP-site !
Summary: ufo
Keywords: ufo
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 2 Mar 92 23:57:46 GMT
Organization: Puplic-Access-Xenix-System
Lines: 26
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4764 sci.space:27289 sci.skeptic:21289 alt.paranormal:4567

Hello,

there was recently uploaded a few new GIF-pics of a "real" UFO to the new
UFO-FTP-site at phoenix.oulu.fi (130.231.240.17).

2 pictures were corrupted. They are only about 9 KBytes long.

Please could the uploader be so kind to try them to upload again ??

Be sure to upload them in binary format !(just type: binary)

Thanks for the effort.
Best regards, Stefan Hartmann,c/o Workshop for
Decentral Energy Research
email to: [e-mail]
:



--

*******************************************************************************
*  Stefan Hartmann       This is how to contact me:                           *
*  EMAIL: [e-mail]                                            *
*  Phone : ++ 49 30 344 23 66      FAX : ++ 49 30 344 92 79                   *
*******************************************************************************
Path: ns-mx!uunet!wupost!uwm.edu!linac!att!ucbvax!mtxinu!rtech!ingres!kevinq
From: [e-mail] (Kevin Quinn)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: INVASION!!!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 2 Mar 92 22:16:39 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Kevin Quinn)
Organization: Ask Computer Systems Inc., Ingres Division, Alameda CA 94501
Lines: 24

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Gary Stollman) writes:
>
>     Here are some of the more lively details about my situation:
>
[ lots of raving mania deleted... ]


Anyone remember the song, "They're coming to take me away? ...


Gary - keep it up!  This is the most amusing trash I've read here
in months, and is a great change of pace from the soft, fuzzy
thinkers who so often post here.


kbq




--
Kevin Quinn                         | [e-mail]
                                    | {mtzinu,pacbell,ll-winken,sun}!ingres.com
My opinions are my own.  Should you think otherwise, think again.
Path: ns-mx!uunet!think.com!wupost!darwin.sura.net!mlb.semi.harris.com!rtfm.mlb.fl.us!joshua
From: [e-mail] (Joshua Geller)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: October 12, 1992
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 3 Mar 92 02:24:00 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: We don't need no stinkin' batches!
Lines: 27

[e-mail] (Brian 'Rev P-K' Siano) writes:

|>[e-mail] (Steve Timpson) writes:

|>> In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail]

|>> >Can someone please explain the significance of this date?

|>> >Thanks,
|>> >Al

|>>         I think  some  believe  that the US Gov'ment is going to announce
|>>         the existance of ET's on this date.

|>>         Also there is  yet  "ANOTHER"  religious  group (in Denver) which
|>>         claims that the "Second Coming" will occur sometime around then.

|>>         Steve Food_for_the_Grays

|>Actually, I have several flyers from this quasi-Christian sect (based in
|>korea) that claims the Rapture will happen in October of 1992. I wish I had
|>the address in front of me; the stuff's pretty funny, and collectors could
|>use some good bulldada.

it's also aleister crowley's 117th brirthday.

josh
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!swrinde!network.ucsd.edu!nmt.edu!dragon
From: [e-mail] (Dave Michaels)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 3 Mar 92 16:19:18 GMT
References: <zzzk.699178139@jacobs> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: New Mexico Institute of Mining and Technology
Lines: 55
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4767 sci.space:27305 sci.skeptic:21301 alt.paranormal:4568

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Joshua Geller) writes:
>[e-mail] (Dave Zecchini) writes:
>|>    Thus, if you're looking at it simply from an odds-for-or-against
>|>viewpoint, the odds AGAINST it being a face increase dramatically.
>|>    And that's what I was asked.  The odds against.
>nonono....I am talking odds in the sense of gambling; do you want to bet
>$10,000 against my $10?
>josh

You guys are amazing.  Or maybe it's just josh .. what does ANYONE have to
gain from such a bet?  A new Honda vs. Lunch -- okay, if the odds are
1000:1, then yes, that implies the 'bet' should be also 1000:1 .. but no
one's going to 'take a bet' if there's nothing to be gained from it
(virtually nothing == $10).

You might consider this a lack of faith in the numbers themselves, but if
you made it say, $1,000,000 to $1,000 -- would YOU go for it?  There's a
big difference in placing a $1 bet on a pick-3 type lottery and placing a
$1G bet.  Besides, usually there's a "bank" that pays the winners, and not
a single person .. unless that person can deal with losing $1M.

That aside, so as to not waste bandwidth altogether, my comments on the
"Face".

I've not seen the photos, enhanced or otherwise.  I've just been reading
through these articles, and thinking about the philosophy of the whole
deal.  I have no feelings either way at this point (which is logical, since
I've seen no evidence to support either case), but I think we can see a
general human trait at work here.

First of all, there's always at least 2 sides to every story, and given the
number of people who read these things, there are strong supporters of at
least 2 sides.

Secondly, we tend to love excitement and mystery .. even if fabricated (no,
that's not an implication), it makes life more interesting for some ..
interesting enough to be anxious to see what happens next.  Heck, I'm
currently on my way towards making a fantastic dream into reality -- I find
that pretty exciting, myself!

I think we'd (some of us) like to believe that there's some higher meaning,
or something.  That we're currently in an 'idle' stage, and humanity is
going to be thrown into a new scenario pretty soon.  IMHO, this "pretty
soon" isn't going to be for at least 3 decades, more like 2 centuries.
Yeah, that's a pretty big margin, but .. must account for radically
different 'feasible' scenarios.

Thanks for listening.  Relax, sit back, and smile .. it's a wonderful
world. :)

--
Dave Michaels                      ||Jyrax@Pern, Ruth@(otherplaces)
[e-mail]             ||[e-mail]
"What am I doing on jupiter?"      ||"Ask not what your country can do for you,
"na'it'eer awoiwoi subcu se'it'am."||ask 'what have you done for me lately?'"
Path: ns-mx!uunet!van-bc!ubc-cs!unixg.ubc.ca!kakwa.ucs.ualberta.ca!access.usask.ca!ccu.umanitoba.ca!umrutko0
From: [e-mail] (Chris Rutkowski)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Crop Circle Report Available
Summary: The 1991 NAICCR Crop Circle Report is available
Keywords: crop,circles,North America
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 3 Mar 92 21:38:24 GMT
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada
Lines: 19
Nntp-Posting-Host: asimov.cc.umanitoba.ca

Fo anyone interested, the 1991 NAICCR Report on Crop Circles and
Related Physical Traces is now available.  The 21-page report is
available from NAICCR (North American Institute for Crop Circle
Research) at:  P.O. Box 1918, Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada  R3C 3R2
.........................................................................
The cost is $4.00 on an International Money Order, although NAICCR has
also made deals with bunches of International Postal Reply Coupons to
cover costs.
.....................................................
The 1991 Report lists 87 UGMs at 37 sites throughout North America,
reported to varios agencies and groups including NAICCR.  The Report
contains the raw data, statistical treatments, tables and an annotated
case listing as well as selected sketches of the more unusual sites.
.....................................................

--
Chris Rutkowski - [e-mail]
Royal Astronomical Society of Canada
University of Manitoba - Winnipeg, Canada
Path: ns-mx!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!uwm.edu!linac!att!cbnewse!cbnewsd!press2
From: [e-mail] (barry.o.olson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: INVASION!!!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 4 Mar 92 01:07:20 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
Lines: 15

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Kevin Quinn) writes:
>
>
> Gary - keep it up!  This is the most amusing trash I've read here
> in months, and is a great change of pace from the soft, fuzzy
> thinkers who so often post here.
>
Oh God, he's onto the ALF clone program!

I don't claim to speak for the clones, but I used to be a soft, fuzzy
talker...before the injections. Now that I can't talk, I'm just a soft
,fuzzy thinker.
I wouldn't post anymore on this subject, Good Day!

ALF Clone Project
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!jvnc.net!darwin.sura.net!ukma!widener!gvls1!tredysvr!cellar!revpk
From: [e-mail] (Brian 'Rev P-K' Siano)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: October 12, 1992
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 3 Mar 92 23:42:26 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (The Cellar BBS)
Organization: The Cellar BBS and public access system
Lines: 41

[e-mail] (Joshua Geller) writes:

> [e-mail] (Brian 'Rev P-K' Siano) writes:
>
> |>[e-mail] (Steve Timpson) writes:
>
> |>> In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail]
>
> |>> >Can someone please explain the significance of this date?
>
> |>> >Thanks,
> |>> >Al
>
> |>>         I think  some  believe  that the US Gov'ment is going to announce
> |>>         the existance of ET's on this date.
>
> |>>         Also there is  yet  "ANOTHER"  religious  group (in Denver) which
> |>>         claims that the "Second Coming" will occur sometime around then.
>
> |>>         Steve Food_for_the_Grays
>
> |>Actually, I have several flyers from this quasi-Christian sect (based in
> |>korea) that claims the Rapture will happen in October of 1992. I wish I had
> |>the address in front of me; the stuff's pretty funny, and collectors could
> |>use some good bulldada.
>
> it's also aleister crowley's 117th brirthday.
>
> josh

Synchronicity! Holy Shit!

Rev. P-K-- "Par-DEE!!"

Brian "Rev. P-K" Siano
[e-mail]
Organizer of the Delaware Valley Skeptics (though opinions posted are my own,
and not representative).
"Not only does Bush have a depression on his hands, now he's got this self
pitying, pathologically lying pornofreak on the Supreme Court." -- Robert Bly,
in conversation with Deborah Tannen.
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!mips!munnari.oz.au!newsroom.utas.edu.au!cam!esk!cdunn
From: cdunn@esk (Colin Garth Dunn)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: INVASION!!!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 4 Mar 92 04:56:10 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: University of Tasmania at Launceston
Lines: 30

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Kevin Quinn) writes:
>
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Gary Stollman) writes:
>> [3 LINES OF QUOTED TEXT DELETED]
>[ lots of raving mania deleted... ]
>
>
>Anyone remember the song, "They're coming to take me away? ...
>
>
>Gary - keep it up!  This is the most amusing trash I've read here
>in months, and is a great change of pace from the soft, fuzzy
>thinkers who so often post here.
>
>
>kbq
>
>
>
>
>--
>Kevin Quinn                         | [e-mail]
>                                    | {mtzinu,pacbell,ll-winken,sun}!ingres.com
>My opinions are my own.  Should you think otherwise, think again.

--
"The Will and The Word - the keepers of Power."
                               -C. Wright
-------------------------------------------------
Colin Dunn - Email [e-mail]
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!batcomputer!genie!udel!sbcs.sunysb.edu!csws15.ic.sunysb.edu!jflint
From: [e-mail] (Jesse Flint)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.pagan,alt.paranormal,talk.religion.newage
Subject: Re: Creating Peace On Earth by 2000 !
Summary: Cheap laughs
Keywords: Peace Clock, fnord
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 4 Mar 92 05:29:09 GMT
Expires: Wed, 1 Apr 1992 05:00:00 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: State University of New York at Stony Brook
Lines: 80
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4772 alt.pagan:13286 alt.paranormal:4572 talk.religion.newage:9627
Nntp-Posting-Host: csws15.ic.sunysb.edu

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Walter D. Pullen) writes:
>
>Since today is February 29, the Leap Day, a once in a four year
>experience, I figured that now would be an synchronistically
>appropriate time to post this. :) This is another excerpt from the
>book "Bashar: Blueprint for Change - A Message from Our Future",
>written by Darryl Anka and Luana Ewing.
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>                 -----  PEACE IN OUR LIFETIME -----
>       <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<  PEACE CLOCK  >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>                 ------   A WORLDWIDE EVENT  ------
>
>STARTING NOW: Wherever you are, perform a silent meditation for world
>              peace EVERY DAY AT NOON FOR ONE FULL MINUTE.
>THE GOAL:     To have EVERY PERSON ON EARTH performing this event by the
>              year 2000.
>        [stuff deleted]
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>     Allow yourselves to truly feel the strength of your power, for
>you *are* empowered. If you know that *every single individual has a
>profound impact upon your entire planet*, you will change your world
>in ways you have not yet imagined - very rapidly. You will be
>accelerating your world at such a pace that if this is accomplished by
>your year 2000, then beginning from that year many things will happen
>you will perhaps hardly even believe.
>
Completely unlike the things that have happened in the last 2 years...

>>>     The basic goal is to have every individual - yes, every *single*
>individual - on your planet doing that one-minute meditation by
>January 1, 2000. You will find such a high degree of accelerated
>energy focused on world peace around your world that you will be able
>to have the foundations laid down for one world between 1990 and the
>year 2000. No later than 2013, 2011....
>
>     AND THERE WILL INDEED BE PEACE IN OUR TIME.
>
>
Or maybe before, IF YOU WANT IT.

>--
>-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
>|     Walter D. "Cruiser1" Pullen     |     [e-mail]     |
>-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
>|   "Who am I, What am I?  As I am, I am not.  But as we are, I AM.  And to   |
>-   you my creation, My Perfect Love is your Perfect Freedom. And I will be   -
>|   with you forever and ever, until the End, and then forever more." - GOD   |
>-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

Now... I AM a Neo-Pagan, but this MADE ME DIE LAUGHING. What the HELL is going
on here? A bunch of crystal-wielding airheads sitting around meditating is NOT
going to bring peace; application and understanding WILL.
We are sitting on the verge of the 21st Century, communicating on a computer
net that would have been impossible 20 years ago, and for what? So we can all
sit in our comfy chairs with a can of celery juice and IMAGINE peace into
existance. GREAT. I guess the massive changes in Europe and the (ex-) USSR
were due to IMAGINING. I guess we can just IMAGINE a Democratic president
into office, IMAGINE ourselves a better world, IMAGINE contact with other
intelligences, IMAGINE immortality and intelligence increase. DUH. We should
be out DOING these things with the aid of high-tech; a world where people can
communicate world-wide over the Internet and can publish their own books
(literally!) on their desktops is a world where we can MAKE great things
instead of just IMAGINING them.
But, if you want... imagine away. Maybe it WILL help. Just DO something to
back it up.
                    --Tog
--
############################################################################
#DISCLAIMER:             #   "Do what keepeth thou                     #
#                         #   from wilting shall be                #
#THE OPINIONS IN MY POSTINGS #   the Loophole in the Law."             #
#ARE MINE AND DO NOT REFLECT #                                #
#THE VIEWS OF MY HOME SYSTEM #  Gary Mccammon a.k.a. Tog                   #
#OR THE OWNER OF THIS        #           c/o                           #
#ACCOUNT. <FNORD>            #  [e-mail]                   #
############################################################################
Path: ns-mx!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!wupost!tulane!ukma!widener!dsinc!bagate!cbmvax!vanth!jms
From: [e-mail] (Jim Shaffer)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re:   This Whole Mars Face Off
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 3 Mar 92 14:16:58 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: The 'Jinky the Fruit Bat' Fan Club
Lines: 22

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Patrick Brosnan) writes:
>       Jose Arguelles, in his book "The Mayan Factor" mentions a proposal by
>Japanese-American artist, Isamu Noguchi. He wanted to build a sculpture, a mile
>wide, of a face looking skyward. It was never built but the title of it was to
>be "The Sculpture to be Seen from Mars". And this happened 29 years before the
>Viking probe had photographed the Mars face.

A-ha!  The last time I heard this, it was called "The Face on Mars" or
something similar, *not* "The Sculpture to be Seen from Mars".  Quite a
difference!  That clears it up!

So why does Arguelles think that this has anything to do with the Face on
Mars?  Back when people thought that Mars was inhabited, people developed
plans to alert the hypothetical Martians to our presence.  Things like
geometric plantings of pine trees in Siberia, or burning trenches of oil in
the Sahara, etc.

--
 *  From the disk of: | [e-mail]                 | "They don't tell me
 Jim Shaffer, Jr.     | uunet!cbmvax!vanth!jms         | nothin', so I find
 37 Brook Street      | [e-mail] | out all I can."
 Montgomery, PA 17752 | [e-mail]      |      (Phil Collins)
Path: ns-mx!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!wupost!tulane!ukma!widener!dsinc!bagate!cbmvax!vanth!jms
From: [e-mail] (Jim Shaffer)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: OIL BARONS SUPPRESS EMERGING TECHNOLOGIES
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 3 Mar 92 14:40:50 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: The 'Jinky the Fruit Bat' Fan Club
Lines: 24

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Len Bucuvalas [phone]) writes:
>well known?  At this moment, there are over 3,000 devices or
>applications in the patent office that have been branded as security or
>put under wraps by the secrecy order, Title 35, U.S. Code (1952)
>Sections 181-188.

But surely all 3000 of them don't pertain to free energy or other
unconventional technologies, do they?

>SECRECY ORDER
>(Title 35, United States Code (1952), sections 181-188)
[...]
>This order should not be construed in any way to mean that the
>Government has adopted or contemplates adoption of the alleged
>invention disclosed in this application;  nor is it any indication
>of the value of such invention.

HA HA HA HA HA!

--
 *  From the disk of: | [e-mail]                 | "They don't tell me
 Jim Shaffer, Jr.     | uunet!cbmvax!vanth!jms         | nothin', so I find
 37 Brook Street      | [e-mail] | out all I can."
 Montgomery, PA 17752 | [e-mail]      |      (Phil Collins)
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!cs.utexas.edu!wupost!tulane!ukma!widener!dsinc!bagate!cbmvax!vanth!jms
From: [e-mail] (Jim Shaffer)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Don Ecker:  Super Star on Radio?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 3 Mar 92 14:46:23 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: The 'Jinky the Fruit Bat' Fan Club
Lines: 14

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Dale Wedge) writes:
>
>I've from the Ecker himself that he is going to be on the radio.
>It would seem that it is some obscure National Ratio Network that
>know one knows about.

It's something called Cable Radio Network, and I've never heard of it
either.  Too bad, since Don does seem to be an interesting researcher.

--
 *  From the disk of: | [e-mail]                 | "They don't tell me
 Jim Shaffer, Jr.     | uunet!cbmvax!vanth!jms         | nothin', so I find
 37 Brook Street      | [e-mail] | out all I can."
 Montgomery, PA 17752 | [e-mail]      |      (Phil Collins)
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!ukma!widener!dsinc!bagate!cbmvax!vanth!jms
From: [e-mail] (Jim Shaffer)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re:  PLANETCOM
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 4 Mar 92 00:57:33 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: The 'Jinky the Fruit Bat' Fan Club
Lines: 26

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Cameron Randale Bass) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Raven Tengu of Kyoto) writes:
>>
>>                                    The technology for
>>hand held lasers driven by power supplies that only weigh
>>200 pounds has existed for twenty years or more. DARPA
>>builds them and they have all the necessary capabilities she
>>is overawed with.
>
>     200 pounds?  DARPA is behind the times.  They'd better
>     sneak over to Brookstone for their lasers with power supplies
>     under 2 ounces.

This is *not* meant to imply that I agree with the original poster,
but...

How much power do these 2-ounce power supplies put out, and what can you do
with the resulting laser?  If you read the entire article and/or know who
Linda Howe is, you'd know that the lasers are allegedly being used to
disect cattle in the field.

--
 *  From the disk of: | [e-mail]                 | "They don't tell me
 Jim Shaffer, Jr.     | uunet!cbmvax!vanth!jms         | nothin', so I find
 37 Brook Street      | [e-mail] | out all I can."
 Montgomery, PA 17752 | [e-mail]      |      (Phil Collins)
Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uunet.ca!torag!zooid!dinosaur
From: [e-mail] (David McKay)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 4 Mar 92 04:39:35 GMT
Lines: 22
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4777 sci.space:27352 sci.skeptic:21344 alt.paranormal:4573

From: [e-mail] (Scott D. Young)
>   A question...if they are left by some long-dead civilization, why is it
>   we only found a face, and not football stadiums or cities or nuclear
>   reactors?  I mean, if you are going to build something, and you can only
>   build one "something" of such huge size (time/effort constraints, whatever)

>   how many people would build a face that only hypothetical "aliens" (as in
>   non-Martians) could see?  If someone in the government said, "Let's not
>   build all those bombers, but a 200 mile long bust of Elvis," you know what
>   they'd do to him?  They'd chase him up a tree and set fire to it.
>
>      Such blatant stupidity and waste of resources *could* explain why these
>   Martians aren't around anymore, though.  (OK, maybe one- Dan Quayle.)   :)
>
>   Scott Young
>   [e-mail]

  That's all well and good, but remember that we have built similar
things. The most obvious example is Mount Rushmore. And there's the
giant statues of stupid objects which appear in so many Canadian
towns in futile attempts to draw tourists. For example, the giant
Nickel in Sudbury.
Path: ns-mx!uunet!verifone.com!kent_f1
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Mars-face with Pyramids
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 3 Mar 92 05:37:02 GMT
References: <behse.697686309@tubue>
Organization: VeriFone Inc., Honolulu HI
Lines: 10
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4778 sci.space:27360 sci.skeptic:21352

> MD#P(QP >F.*UERD"@*,$5$\C;OW:YR>2/\_Y_*H+R)GGADCF= @(* _>SZU4
> M9)YAC;@,>>>M9*Z2;.[>X\]QN;=\S9P<=O:N2O9[(ZM<QKEIF<');/S>M-\1
> MK))IJ0QQM)=2-E@.P'K^E1:%ITS1 J@CE4;0W4Y]*Q?#G@Z\E\7/-J,3)';N
> M9#@<-]*].U3Q%::;X>:YM6#2 [0IZY/3(KFK5+J]LA=W;2%W;(!X'-;=G++;
> MVS_9X@JJN=N>I_S_ )ZURNHZ1+KNM,FI+(JJ 4*=Q7>Z)HYM[55C 6"-?E7'
> M.?>J&I2?;Y#$LCA87&5!Y)JLUEJ%K))(A00G!4 <CUYJ_P#O4(ZL0-S*W.<C
> M_/\ G%6M)NEN8F\HF4*>O8'TKIK?S'16P64 8)%96N1$J_F9V%3NKE= N[>%

Never mind... this is about as much sense the idea of deliberate
faces on Mars makes anyway.
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!asuvax!anasaz!qip!billy
From: billy@anasaz (Bill Moore)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: UFO Video-Photo-Document Part1
Keywords: Review Footage
Message-ID: <1992Mar3.182128.20354@anasaz>
Date: 3 Mar 92 18:21:28 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <1992Feb24.172432.4575@anasaz> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Anasazi, Inc.  Phoenix, Az
Lines: 107

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Steve Urich) writes:
->In article <1992Feb24.172432.4575@anasaz> billy@anasaz (Bill Moore) writes:
->
->    I never said it was `THE TRUTH' only that is was the best UFO
->    footage that I have seen so far.
->
You didn't see Close Encounters of the Third Kind?  If we're talking about
make believe, those effects were much better than Meiers'.
->>Watch the tree branches, not the UFO, during this sequence.  The splice
->>can be seen very easily with the naked eye.  The "light shift" and sudden
->>jump of the branches shows the change in lighting and wind conditions
->>between the two sequences. Also, in other sequences, watch the cloud patterns
->>in the background to see where splices occur.
->
->    HAHAHAHA! Bill your parents must be Lawyers! HAHAHAHA
->    So serious, lighten Up. You almost make it sound like Gary
->    has some competition :-)
->
Huh?
->########THIS WAS NOT PART OF THE SCRUTINY TEST OF THE JAPANESE###
->
Obviously.  The question is "why not?"  NTV proported to have done a
comprehensive analysis but they didn't.  Therefore, it is not a credible
study.
->    You have to remember this stuff is dated back in 1975 the
->    part you mean is at the end where Meier is talking about the
->    materialization wave mumbo jumbo. In that part while he is talking
->    the editing wasn't too cool and yes the jump of the branches
->    was VERY noticable. Did you ever think maybe it was edited there
->    because the film ran out? That part you discribe was not the part
No. The splice deleted only a few seconds.
->    that they scrutinzed maybe because it was the end of the film.
->
->#######REMEMBER THIS WHEN YOU REPLY#####
->
->    I think the originals were checked for spices and editing before
->    the Japs did there investigation don't you?
->
On the other side of the coin, Meiers did something NO OTHER hoaxer has
been able to do.  He submitted WHOLE rolls of film and he had them
delveloped in an outside lab.  It's hard to hoax photos so a roll of hoaxed
film typically has only one or two "good" shots, the rest "bad."  Usually,
the hoaxer has to develop the film himself to pick out the bad shots.

Meiers was consistently able to submit an entire roll of film to an outside
lab.  There were no bad shots, nothing to pick out.  Very convincing.  Until
the model was found and the splices talked about here noted, he was a very
convincing source.  However, part hoax = all hoax so he is discredited.

->#######SCEPTIC ALERT###########
->
->The parts of the footage the Japanese scrutinized `Did Not' noticably have
->changes in "swaying" branches or other surroundings like clouds etc etc.
->It did have the "green glow" light conditions. Remember they did the slow
->motion and still effects. I didn't touch my VCR buttons.
->
->Again, what did he film?!?!?! How did he do it?!?!?!
->
Who knows.  It is amazing but it is a hoax.

->###############################
->>Horn swoggle.  This particular sequence was a large part of why Mr. Meiers
->>was discredited.  As decribed above, changes in "swaying" branches and
->>lighting conditions from one frame to the next are indicitive of splicing,
->>not magic.  What's "true" is that the film was altered.
->
->    I notice you never say anything about the actual UFOs why?????
Again, one model = all models.  That he built one model is sufficient to
cause us to believe he built several.
->    I wasn't worried about the film, I was trying to figure out how
->    he did it. Maybe this `Alter armer Schweizer Bauer mit bloss einen
->    guten arm' was really a Hollywood Film Technowizard with a phony
->    half an arm while his real left arm was tied to his back :-).
->
He does have quite a following.  He obviously had help.
->    Come on, so he wasn't the greatest movie producer. I don't think
->    he was using `Blue Screens' back then do you? What did he film?
->
->    The model that was found in his Shack was just that....A MODEL!
->    Yea thats it... He had a bunch of operator Engineers with Hydraulic
Once he was shown to be a hoaxer, serious investigation stopped.  Nobody
really cared how he did it.

->    Cranes behind, operating the models on fishing string. Better yet
->    a fleet of Swiss Army Helicopters tangling the models with
->    clear plexiglass poles.
->
->>... more horn swoggle deleted ...
->
->    Horn swoggle huh :-) Reminds me of the 2 old Geezers on the
->    `Muppet Show' that used to cut up all the other muppets, hahahaha.
->
->    Thank you Bill for your excellent Opinion, very good to see someone
You're quite welcome.

->    else out there think about these classic UFO debunker materials.
->    I only wish it was in better condition to really give it the
->    microscope but alas all we can do now is wait for some new UFO
->    material to come out so we can scrutinize! :-)
->
->Steve


--
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
     Bill Moore     [e-mail]    [phone]
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!utgpu!watserv1!watdragon!watyew!jdnicoll
From: [e-mail] (James Davis Nicoll)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 4 Mar 92 16:37:31 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: University of Waterloo
Lines: 17
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4780 sci.space:27367 sci.skeptic:21358 alt.paranormal:4575


    [For the purposes of this posting, I will assume that the Face is
an artifact. Note that I do not believe this is the case]

    Name ten man-made objects older than 2000 years. How many
survived because the builders sat down and said 'Gee, if we want people
x Millenia from now to know about, we'd better build a sphinx/set of
pyramids/whatever and how many survived because of their size and
luck of history?

    Why assume the Face was meant to human eyes and that it is not just
a large artifact which happens to have survived x millenia? After all, given
the state of exploration on Mars, for all we know Mars is littered with the
Martian version of 'Where the Hell is Cydonia' T-shirts, all just a little too
small to be seen from orbit and none in view of the two landers.

                                James Nicoll
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!swrinde!news.dell.com!natinst.com!radian!markbr
From: [e-mail] (markbr)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.pagan,alt.paranormal,talk.religion.newage
Subject: Re: Creating Peace On Earth by 2000 !
Summary: As we used to say, right on!
Keywords: Peace Clock, fnord
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 4 Mar 92 18:54:24 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Followup-To: alt.pagan
Organization: Radian Corp. Austin, TX
Lines: 107
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4781 alt.pagan:13297 alt.paranormal:4580 talk.religion.newage:9634

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Jesse Flint) writes:
# In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Walter D. Pullen) writes:
# >
# >Since today is February 29, the Leap Day, a once in a four year
# >experience, I figured that now would be an synchronistically
# >appropriate time to post this. :) This is another excerpt from the
# >book "Bashar: Blueprint for Change - A Message from Our Future",
# >written by Darryl Anka and Luana Ewing.
# >
# >----------------------------------------------------------------------
# >
# >
# >                 -----  PEACE IN OUR LIFETIME -----
# >       <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<  PEACE CLOCK  >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
# >                 ------   A WORLDWIDE EVENT  ------
# >
# >STARTING NOW: Wherever you are, perform a silent meditation for world
# >              peace EVERY DAY AT NOON FOR ONE FULL MINUTE.
# >THE GOAL:     To have EVERY PERSON ON EARTH performing this event by the
# >              year 2000.
# >        [stuff deleted]
# >-----------------------------------------------------------------------
# >
# >     Allow yourselves to truly feel the strength of your power, for
# >you *are* empowered. If you know that *every single individual has a
# >profound impact upon your entire planet*, you will change your world
# >in ways you have not yet imagined - very rapidly. You will be
# >accelerating your world at such a pace that if this is accomplished by
# >your year 2000, then beginning from that year many things will happen
# >you will perhaps hardly even believe.
# >
# Completely unlike the things that have happened in the last 2 years...
#
# >>>     The basic goal is to have every individual - yes, every *single*
# >individual - on your planet doing that one-minute meditation by
# >January 1, 2000. You will find such a high degree of accelerated
# >energy focused on world peace around your world that you will be able
# >to have the foundations laid down for one world between 1990 and the
# >year 2000. No later than 2013, 2011....
# >
# >     AND THERE WILL INDEED BE PEACE IN OUR TIME.
# >
# >
# Or maybe before, IF YOU WANT IT.

Reminds me of the old line from the Mother's first album, "I will love every-
body; I will love the cops on the street as they beat the shit out of me...."
Don't DO anything (except maybe complain, but just sit there and meditate.

# Now... I AM a Neo-Pagan, but this MADE ME DIE LAUGHING. What the HELL is going
# on here? A bunch of crystal-wielding airheads sitting around meditating is NOT
# going to bring peace; application and understanding WILL.
# We are sitting on the verge of the 21st Century, communicating on a computer
# net that would have been impossible 20 years ago, and for what? So we can all
# sit in our comfy chairs with a can of celery juice and IMAGINE peace into
# existance. GREAT. I guess the massive changes in Europe and the (ex-) USSR
# were due to IMAGINING. I guess we can just IMAGINE a Democratic president
# into office, IMAGINE ourselves a better world, IMAGINE contact with other
# intelligences, IMAGINE immortality and intelligence increase. DUH. We should
# be out DOING these things with the aid of high-tech; a world where people can
# communicate world-wide over the Internet and can publish their own books
# (literally!) on their desktops is a world where we can MAKE great things
# instead of just IMAGINING them.
# But, if you want... imagine away. Maybe it WILL help. Just DO something to
# back it up.
#                     --Tog
# --
I'll go along with Tog 110%. We've had a dozen years of people who couldn't
be bothered to vote, or just "didn't like the way somebody looked" (and
forgot that they were electing who would select Supreme Court Justices),
or thought nice thoughts (while they screwed for money). Imagining won't
make the funnymentalists relinquish their hold on the Republicans, or our
airwaves, or this net (see posts about newsgroups censored for content).
Reminds me of what most of what the media used to *call* the "hippies",
that we, who were the real thing, called plastic hippies: they'd put on
their love beads, man, and come down and love everyone, and couldn't
worry about the politics of what was happening. Love everyone didn't end
the 'Nam, and it won't bring peace now. Getting ther asses out there and
*doing* something *may*.

A Democratic candidate may not be JFK, or Robert Redford, or whoever you
think they 'ought' to be (though I haven't heard one suggestion other than
Cuomo), but do you *really* want four more years of the Republicans?

Sorry about a poitical rant here (on alt.pagan), but I'm *so* bloody fed
up with the way people have been acting in the world, that Tog set me off.

Btw, *I'd* rather vote left (the Dems are barely liberals anymore, they're
almost where the Rebublicans used to be before the right wing dragged them
to near-Birch-Society-hood), but they're better than the funnys.

    mark

/*___________________________________________________________________________*
 *  1.     How *DARE* you attribute these opinions to anyone else!           *
 *  2.     Would *you* claim opinions like these if they *weren't your own?  *
 *                                                         *
 *                 Mark Silverdragon                                   *
 *                                                         *
 *                         [e-mail]                                   *
 *___________________________________________________________________________*/
Etymology, n.:
    Some early etymological scholars come up with derivations that
were hard for the public to believe.  The term "etymology" was formed
from the Latin "etus" ("eaten"), the root "mal" ("bad"), and "logy"
("study of").  It meant "the study of things that are hard to swallow."
        -- Mike Kellen
Path: ns-mx!uunet!comp.vuw.ac.nz!waikato.ac.nz!aukuni.ac.nz!mercury!crfm!clark
From: [e-mail] (Clark Mills)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Test
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 4 Mar 92 07:56:26 GMT
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Clark Mills)
Organization: Household UNIX, Western Springs, Auckland, New Zealand
Lines: 1

Test only, please ignore!  :-)
Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!uknet!edcastle!warwick!cstdxff
From: [e-mail] (Mr G S Sutherland)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: October 12, 1992
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 4 Mar 92 22:49:27 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Network news)
Organization: Computing Services, Warwick University, UK
Lines: 4
Nntp-Posting-Host: cactus

Well, October the 12th is my father's 50th birthday, so I'd better not
forget it..:-)

        G.S.Sutherland.
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!morale
From: [e-mail] (Enrique Morales)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Mars-face with Pyramids
Message-ID: <2#[e-mail]>
Date: 5 Mar 92 02:08:39 GMT
References: <behse.697686309@tubue> <[e-mail]>
Lines: 39
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4784 sci.space:27395 sci.skeptic:21399
Nntp-Posting-Host: aix.rpi.edu

[e-mail] writes:

>> MD#P(QP >F.*UERD"@*,$5$\C;OW:YR>2/\_Y_*H+R)GGADCF= @(* _>SZU4
>> M9)YAC;@,>>>M9*Z2;.[>X\]QN;=\S9P<=O:N2O9[(ZM<QKEIF<');/S>M-\1
>> MK))IJ0QQM)=2-E@.P'K^E1:%ITS1 J@CE4;0W4Y]*Q?#G@Z\E\7/-J,3)';N
>> M9#@<-]*].U3Q%::;X>:YM6#2 [0IZY/3(KFK5+J]LA=W;2%W;(!X'-;=G++;
>> MVS_9X@JJN=N>I_S_ )ZURNHZ1+KNM,FI+(JJ 4*=Q7>Z)HYM[55C 6"-?E7'
>> M.?>J&I2?;Y#$LCA87&5!Y)JLUEJ%K))(A00G!4 <CUYJ_P#O4(ZL0-S*W.<C
>> M_/\ G%6M)NEN8F\HF4*>O8'TKIK?S'16P64 8)%96N1$J_F9V%3NKE= N[>%

>Never mind... this is about as much sense the idea of deliberate
>faces on Mars makes anyway.

You're not a believer;you're not even a skeptic.
You're just some dumb idiot that can't even make sense out
of the worthless two lines that you bother to post.
your sentence is attrocious(very bad just in case you can't under
stand ). it was with obviously most negligence you wrote this.
Try reading that last sentence and tell me what you think.
Although you probably think it is ok.
    Don't criticize stuff before you know what it is.
You piss me off, and all the ignorant f---heads out there that do
not cosider shit before they start blabbing.

Enrique
aka juggler
==============================================
||  Just 'cause you don't like it           ||
||  Don't mean it ain't no good.            ||
||  And just 'cause you can't understand it,||
||  Don't mean it make no sense.            ||
||                --Suicidal Tendencies     ||
||          (Don't bring me down)     ||
==============================================


P.S. If you ever come accross the suicidal tendencies _Revolution_
album, listen to "don't bring me down."  It pertains to people
just like you.
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!batcomputer!cornell!uw-beaver!pullen
From: [e-mail] (Walter D. Pullen)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.pagan,alt.paranormal,talk.religion.newage
Subject: Re: Creating Peace On Earth by 2000 !
Keywords: Peace Clock, fnord
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 5 Mar 92 02:50:04 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: University of Washington Computer Science
Lines: 29
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4785 alt.pagan:13303 alt.paranormal:4583 talk.religion.newage:9643

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Jesse Flint) writes:
>I guess the massive changes in Europe and the (ex-) USSR
>were due to IMAGINING. I guess we can just IMAGINE a Democratic president
>into office, IMAGINE ourselves a better world, IMAGINE contact with other
>intelligences, IMAGINE immortality and intelligence increase.
>But, if you want... imagine away. Maybe it WILL help. Just DO something to
>back it up.

I agree completely! Action is required for anything to manifest, and
achieving world peace and freedom will require hard work and faith.
However, in order to do this, we must be aware that 1) we *want* to
achive understanding in our world, and 2) that we *can* actually do it
if we really want to. Concerning #1, too often people aren't aware of
what they really want, and go through time not doing anything of
substance, accepting whatever comes along. Focusing on the concept of
peace will help direct our actions there. Concerning #2, we should
ignore the overly pessimistic, and keep focusing on our goal of peace
even when it doesn't seem all that close. The massive changes in
Europe would not have come about had not people thought they were
possible, and kept their attention daily on this goal. Thoughts are
things, and very important things, since they are behind all action.

-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
|     Walter D. "Cruiser1" Pullen     |     [e-mail]     |
-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
|   "Who am I, What am I?  As I am, I am not.  But as we are, I AM.  And to   |
-   you my creation, My Perfect Love is your Perfect Freedom. And I will be   -
|   with you forever and ever, until the End, and then forever more." - GOD   |
-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
Path: ns-mx!uunet!munnari.oz.au!newsroom.utas.edu.au!news
From: CMJ
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: OIL BARONS SUPPRESS EMERGING TECHNOLOGIES
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 5 Mar 92 03:43:07 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: University of Tasmania
Lines: 13

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Jim Shaffer) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]>
[e-mail] (Len Bucuvalas [phone]) writes:
>>well known?  At this moment, there are over 3,000 devices or
>>applications in the patent office that have been branded as security or
>>put under wraps by the secrecy order, Title 35, U.S. Code (1952)
>>Sections 181-188.
>

??? What access does the public have to patent information either secret
or non-secret ???

=== CAPTAIN MARVEL JONES ===
Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!uknet!mucs!p4.cs.man.ac.uk!chardi
From: [e-mail] (Ian Chard)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: INVASION!!!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 4 Mar 92 20:24:06 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Ian Chard)
Lines: 16

> ... brilliantly written fiction deleted ...

That's just a great story!  Seriously, though, I truly believe that anyone
who has gone through such an ordeal would sell it to the Enquirer, not post
it on Usenet!  And I'm not saying that such things happen, either.  We have
all had dreams which seem real enough the next day... hell, I can remember
going into town seriously expecting it to be under three feet of water!

Gary, you are not helping yourself by posting this fiction.  If you really
believe what you are saying, then you should be committed to a suitable
institution.  Either that, or join the British Government...

--
[  Ian Chard, Computer Science I  |  Life is pretty good at the moment.       ]
[  Manchester University          |  A no-code HF license?... well, that      ]
[  [e-mail]         |  would make it just about perfect.        ]
Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!uknet!warwick!kingpol!titan.kingston.ac.uk!as_m332
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Those JPEGS at phoenix
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 5 Mar 92 09:05:34 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (Network News)
Organization: Kingston Polytechnic
Lines: 14
Nntp-Posting-Host: tamara

On the subject of GIFs and the like..  Does anyone have GIF versions
of the mars jpegs at phoenix.oulu.fi that they could upload ?
Both my jpeg viewer and jpeg converter generate software errors when
trying to handle these, although they work fine with other jpegs.

many thanks,
-Sean.


-
Sean Eaton, Mathematics.
Kingston Polytechnic,
Kingston-upon-Thames,
England.
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pitt.edu!drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu!cantaloupe.srv.cs.cmu.edu!crabapple.srv.cs.cmu.edu!andrew.cmu.edu!ql04+
From: [e-mail] (Questor Lau)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Creating Peace On Earth by 2000!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 5 Mar 92 07:08:56 GMT
References: <[e-mail]><[e-mail]>
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Lines: 99
In-Reply-To: <[e-mail]>


   It has been argued that *action* is more important than *imagination*
since action causes change and imagination is just wishful thinking. For
example:

>In article <[e-mail]>
[e-mail] (
>Jesse Flint) writes:

>I guess the massive changes in Europe and the (ex-) USSR
>were due to IMAGINING. I guess we can just IMAGINE a Democratic president
>into office, IMAGINE ourselves a better world, IMAGINE contact with other
>intelligences, IMAGINE immortality and intelligence increase.
>But, if you want... imagine away. Maybe it WILL help. Just DO something to
>back it up.

    Ah, but remember it was also people who *did take action that got us
into world wars, government money scandals, drug wars, homicide, rape,
suicide, etc. etc.
    On the other hand, there have also been positive action by those who
would make life better for mankind. There have been many useful
inventions (which I believe are IMAGINATION transformed into action).
But before there was action, there was that focussed mental energy,
intentionality, thought, and planning... there was IMAGINATION!!!
    For those of you who need some form of scientific proof to grab
ahold of before you allow yourselves to subscribe to any particular
doctorine, consider that there are so many aspects of human
consciousness that we have yet to discover, why couldn't meditation make
a difference in world affairs? Has an experiment ever been done where
researchers have separated world affairs into group A: that was not
allowed to say one prayer nor to visualize peace and second group B: the
control? Hmmm?

   Here, I elaborate a little on the power of the mind to influence how
and what we see.
    Research has established that subjects exposed to a musical score
through dichotic listening (where sound -- be it human voices or music
-- is projected into both ears and the subject told to attend to only
one ear) prefer the familiar tune over another tune they have never
heard before. A similar trend has been noted with vision (objects
flashed at one-thousandth of a second). [Abnormal Psychology. 5th ed.
Davidson, Gerald C. and Neale. John M. John Wiley and sons:New York,
1990. p.175.]  It would seem that we are at least inclined to believe
what we hear all around us and so often that it penetrates the
unconscious.
    Hypnosis would support these findings of the effect of unconscious
stimuli on behavior. Characteristics of hypnosis are as follows: 1)
increased suggestibility, 2) enhanced ability to vividly imagine
suggested experiences, 3) a desensitization to pain, and 4) a "trance
logic" -- the subject relies on the experimenter for initiative and will
tolerate bizare distortions of their reality. [ibid, p.22]


    What incredible potential the mind has! Are we just computers
susceptible to the sea of influences that is the media? Are our minds so
seduced by the society we live in that we are blind to our own intrinsic
faults?
    Maybe not. I think there are some of us who are able to use their
IMAGINATION to anchor perspectives such as Bashar and the steps to
creating Peace on Earth. Just because the Peace on Earth Meditation
*sounds absurd doesn't mean that the message the voice carries is also
absurd. Go past the criticisms and initial resistance you might have
towards Bashar. Try "Seeing" what's out there with new eyes you have
never tried to use before.



    The question that I sought to answer was: what role does IMAGINATION
play in the DOING stage of action? After considering the information on
hypnosis and dichotic listening it would appear that the unconscious
mind (our IMAGINATION) plays an important role in determining how and
what we see/DO in the world. To downplay imagination is to also degrade
the importance of the mind which it is a part of.
   Provided with this scientific evidence, the possibility exists that
IMAGINATION does indeed play a key role in producing thoughts. Thoughts
which find their fulfillment in action are all part of a system. As
Walter puts it: >Thoughts are things, and very important things, since
they are behind all >action.



   Perhaps then the message Tog, Walter, and I have been saying should
thus be modified to: balance and moderation in all things is best.
ACTION and DOING is important but so is IMAGINATION.

    What is your balance and what is considered moderate for you? You
decide. But when you do, ask yourself: Is it you who has decided or
those subtle influences inside your head?




===========================================
"Even imaginary cookie
     taste good."
                            Cookie Monster  8(0)

  Ahm-num-num-num-num-num!!!
==========================================
Path: ns-mx!uunet!think.com!spool.mu.edu!hri.com!ukma!widener!beyonet!beyo
From: [e-mail] (Steve Urich)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: UFO Video-Photo-Document Part2
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 5 Mar 92 13:18:28 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Beyonet Network
Lines: 22

[e-mail] (Clark Matthews) writes:
[My Stuff and Clarks responses were here]

>That sounds like the stills I have on my BBS!  The GIF files I have are pretty good quality, but low-res (320x200).  Nasty looking little thing, isn't it?  Like you I have no idea what it could be...

    Ahh Yes, the Gifs you have on your BBS sound like they came from the
    same origin. It seems we will have to wait on some better pictures
    and videos of future alien specimens also :-)

>Best,
>  Clark

    Steve
--
 ############### Stephen Urich WB3FTP |"Starlightbeams project ###############
 ##|_|########## Bensalem, PA  USA    |me in Red Blue and Green##|_|##########
 ###############----------------------|Velvetdreams protect me ###############
 ####       #### snark!beyonet!beyo   |when I hit the Screen"  ####       ####
 ##    |_|    ## widener!beyonet!beyo |--Alan Parsons Project  ##    |_|    ##
 ##           ##-----------------------------------------------##           ##
 ####       ####  Packet Radio: WB3FTP@WA3NWL.#EPA.PA.USA.NA   ####       ####
_###############_______________________________________________###############_
Path: ns-mx!uunet!hela.iti.org!widener!beyonet!beyo
From: [e-mail] (Steve Urich)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Mummy Dearest
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 5 Mar 92 13:24:06 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Beyonet Network
Lines: 23

[e-mail] (Clark Matthews) writes:
>In a message to All <28 Feb 92 12:18> Steve Urich wrote:
>
> SU>        Here is another quick Xerox copy of an article about Dead E.T.
> SU>        Specimens.
>
>Steve, where did this article come from?

    The articles that I have are all from Book Brokers. They are all
    Xerox copies and therefore not originals so I can't say for sure
    if they were ever real newpaper articles if you know what I mean.

>Some of the most exciting paelogical, archaeological and anthropological specimens in the world are in the Berliner Staatsmuseum in the former East Germany (old Archaeopteryx lives there, for instance).  So this anomalous mummy isn't necessarily implausible.

--
 ############### Stephen Urich WB3FTP |"Starlightbeams project ###############
 ##|_|########## Bensalem, PA  USA    |me in Red Blue and Green##|_|##########
 ###############----------------------|Velvetdreams protect me ###############
 ####       #### snark!beyonet!beyo   |when I hit the Screen"  ####       ####
 ##    |_|    ## widener!beyonet!beyo |--Alan Parsons Project  ##    |_|    ##
 ##           ##-----------------------------------------------##           ##
 ####       ####  Packet Radio: WB3FTP@WA3NWL.#EPA.PA.USA.NA   ####       ####
_###############_______________________________________________###############_
Path: ns-mx!uunet!hela.iti.org!widener!beyonet!beyo
From: [e-mail] (Steve Urich)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: How about some GIFs? Gifs
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 5 Mar 92 13:33:51 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Beyonet Network
Lines: 27

[e-mail] (Clark Matthews) writes:

>I could UUENCODE a couple of them and post them here, yes.  I shall do so within a day or two, so anyone with UUDECODE and a .GIF viewer/printer should be able to look at the ugly little bugger & see if it looks familiar.

    Well thats one way of finding out if someone else knows any more
    information on the subject. Like for instance where do these photos
    originate? What crash site did they come from if it was a crash
    site?

    I personally think that these might be the specimans from the crash
    site on a desert plateau near Aztec, New Mexico, May 25 1948. Since
    they are in that Nitrogen filled casket I guess that it could be
    plausable that its the same ones.

>Best,
>  Clark

Steve
--
 ############### Stephen Urich WB3FTP |"Starlightbeams project ###############
 ##|_|########## Bensalem, PA  USA    |me in Red Blue and Green##|_|##########
 ###############----------------------|Velvetdreams protect me ###############
 ####       #### snark!beyonet!beyo   |when I hit the Screen"  ####       ####
 ##    |_|    ## widener!beyonet!beyo |--Alan Parsons Project  ##    |_|    ##
 ##           ##-----------------------------------------------##           ##
 ####       ####  Packet Radio: WB3FTP@WA3NWL.#EPA.PA.USA.NA   ####       ####
_###############_______________________________________________###############_
Path: ns-mx!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!convex!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin
From: [e-mail] (Michael Corbin)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Crop Circles
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 5 Mar 92 05:54:00 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (newsout1.26)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - <ParaNet(sm) , Arvada CO
Lines: 32


 > Yes, the British "Euclidean circles" are interesting, BUT you should be
 > aware that the Mandelbrot formation is largely thought to be a hoax.
 > Furthermore, many people who have viewed the video of the "disc" over
 > the field think that it looked more like a piece of chaff or paper
 > being carried on the wind.

Chris, could you please expand on your above statement about the Mandelbrot
formation?  I would appreciate hearing this in more detail.  Also, that disk
that you refer to is highly suspicious.  I viewed the tape that was
distributed by Colin Andrews of the disk flying around the wheat and moving
over the hedges until it moves up the hill some distance off and disappears.
What I cannot figure out from watching that video is the lack of diminishing
size of the object as it moves ever farther from the camera.  I heard Colin
say that the opposite hill is approximately three miles away from the
photographer, and yet the object does not seem to get smaller as it moves
away.  Additionally, I suspect that it could also be some type of RPV.

What are your thoughts on this as well?

Finally, I have seen your postings on Fido.  Are you actually operating a BBS
of your own?  If so, I would like to discuss something with you.  Could you
please netmail me here at [e-mail].

Thanks,

Mike

--
Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]
Path: ns-mx!uunet!hela.iti.org!widener!beyonet!beyo
From: [e-mail] (Steve Urich)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: UFO Video-Photo-Document Part1
Keywords: Review Footage
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 5 Mar 92 14:39:28 GMT
References: <1992Feb24.172432.4575@anasaz> <[e-mail]> <1992Mar3.182128.20354@anasaz>
Organization: Beyonet Network
Lines: 106

In article <1992Mar3.182128.20354@anasaz> billy@anasaz (Bill Moore) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Steve Urich) writes:

>You didn't see Close Encounters of the Third Kind?  If we're talking about
>make believe, those effects were much better than Meiers'.

    Yes I seen it, did you notice it was all `NIGHT' shots? Blue screen
    works best at Night. There were alot of colored lights etc etc.
    But the scaling was wrong when there was interaction between the
    CE-2's and CE-3's. Example: When they were all at the road site
    watching the [Fire works :-] UFO-lites and the lights came down
    and flew right above the road, thats when the movie blatantly
    showed that you can't use Blue Screen techniques so close to real
    closeup background, it looked phoney. Especially when you can see
    the people thru the UFO-lights as it flies low over the road.

    Nice movie, but I basically know how and what they use to make it.

>->########THIS WAS NOT PART OF THE SCRUTINY TEST OF THE JAPANESE###
>->
>Obviously.  The question is "why not?"  NTV proported to have done a
>comprehensive analysis but they didn't.  Therefore, it is not a credible
>study.
>No. The splice deleted only a few seconds.

    Ah, how do you know it was only a few seconds... HAHAHAHAHAaaaa.
    Not by the branch I hope. The branch has nothing to do with time.
    Only that there was a break in the film. Ever hear of splicing
    to `repair' a film?

[Whole-roll film stuff was here]

    Yes, if he was such a hoaxer why did he bring the film whole
    to the lab? Maybe the lab spliced the film on purpose to dis-
    credit him so it would be considered a hoax :-). You never
    know. The only thing you are telling me is that the film
    was cut up. True but what about the parts that weren't
    cut up, how did he do it? What did he film?
    The only thing that they proved if you want to consider this
    proof it that the film was `worked on'.

    The technique of his Beamship film is still unknown isn't it?
    I would like to know what he filmed and how he did it.
    So would Lucas and Speilberg.

>->#######SCEPTIC ALERT###########
>->
>->The parts of the footage the Japanese scrutinized `Did Not' noticably have
>->changes in "swaying" branches or other surroundings like clouds etc etc.
>->It did have the "green glow" light conditions. Remember they did the slow
>->motion and still effects. I didn't touch my VCR buttons.
>->
>->Again, what did he film?!?!?! How did he do it?!?!?!
>->
>Who knows.  It is amazing but it is a hoax.

    The film is spliced and therefore discredited.

>->    I notice you never say anything about the actual UFOs why?????
>Again, one model = all models.  That he built one model is sufficient to
>cause us to believe he built several.

    Obviously your not engineering inclined. The whole makeup of
    human life and its technology starts with making a model. Models
    are designed and built to understand problems and solutions in
    every makeup of Human life and technology. Everybody in every
    field uses models. Even in `Close Encounters of a 3rd kind' there
    are models and drawings made by the CE-3's to try to understand
    what happened.

    A Model is only a downscaled copy version of the known and unknown
    real thing. Sometimes its an Upscaled version of something like
    the DNA chain.

>->    I wasn't worried about the film, I was trying to figure out how
>->    he did it. Maybe this `Alter armer Schweizer Bauer mit bloss einen
>->    guten arm' was really a Hollywood Film Technowizard with a phony
>->    half an arm while his real left arm was tied to his back :-).
>->
>He does have quite a following.  He obviously had help.

    Come on, he had no following in the beginning. I don't think?
    The only help was the film lab... Need I say more...
    I could agree with you if he came out with `Billy Meiers Beamships
    Part XII' :-) Then he would have alot of groupie help.

>->    Thank you Bill for your excellent Opinion, very good to see someone
>You're quite welcome.
>
>->    else out there think about these classic UFO debunker materials.
>->    I only wish it was in better condition to really give it the
>->    microscope but alas all we can do now is wait for some new UFO
>->    material to come out so we can scrutinize! :-)

    I still feel the same way as the above statement.

Steve
--
 ############### Stephen Urich WB3FTP |"Starlightbeams project ###############
 ##|_|########## Bensalem, PA  USA    |me in Red Blue and Green##|_|##########
 ###############----------------------|Velvetdreams protect me ###############
 ####       #### snark!beyonet!beyo   |when I hit the Screen"  ####       ####
 ##    |_|    ## widener!beyonet!beyo |--Alan Parsons Project  ##    |_|    ##
 ##           ##-----------------------------------------------##           ##
 ####       ####  Packet Radio: WB3FTP@WA3NWL.#EPA.PA.USA.NA   ####       ####
_###############_______________________________________________###############_
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!cs.utexas.edu!tamsun!stat!john
From: [e-mail] (John S. Price)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: October 12, 1992
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 5 Mar 92 16:43:30 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Lines: 7


Hey, that's my birthday, too!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Price                   |   It infuriates me to be wrong
[e-mail]           |   when I know I'm right....
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!mips!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!wupost!uunet!tellab5!jcj
From: [e-mail] (jcj)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: The "FACE" from sci.space
Keywords: In case you don't read sci.space...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 5 Mar 92 14:58:47 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (News)
Organization: Wazmodyne Industries
Lines: 60
Originator: jcj@sunGb
Nntp-Posting-Host: sungb

begin quoted article

From: "UTADNX::UTDSSA::GREER"@utspan.span.nasa.gov
Newsgroups: sci.space
Subject: Yet Another Last Word on "The Face"
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 28 Feb 92 17:49:19 GMT

There are two images of "The Face" on Mars, designated 35A72 and 70A13.

Image 35A72 is the one that looks most like a face, and as a
consequence is the one most frequently published in support of Face
assertions.  In this one the Sun is 10 degrees above the horizon, so
the shadows are deep and long.  The shadow of the "Face's" peak is
about as long as the "Face" is wide.  Thus, since the structure is
about a mile wide, the peak must be about 900 ft, or 300 m tall.  There
is more noise in 35A72 than in 70A13, but it doesn't change the image
since it consists of distinct data dropouts and spikes rather than
fuzziness in the image.

The unprocessed data of 35A72 is very low in contrast and very dim.
After cleaning, smoothing, and histogram equalization, 35A72 looks very
much like the image most people have seen published.  The main
difference is made by the histogram equalization which increases the
contrast tremendously, and brings out the features which seem most
face-like.

In 70A13, the Sun's altitude is 27 degrees, so that the peak shadow is
not distinctly visible.  The unprocessed image is low in contrast, but
not as low as 35A72, and much brighter.  In the unprocessed image
several non-face-like features are evident.  The part that appears to
be a nose in published images veers sharply upward, taking the "mouth"
and "chin" along with it, destroying the supposed symmetry of the lower
part of the face.  The "hair" or "helmet" of the "face" is now seen to
be a berm, approximately "L" shaped rather than "U" shaped as it ought
to be for bilateral symmetry.  This "L" connects up with the top left
portion of the "nose", going right over where the the left eye would
be, if the left eye existed.

The most striking feature seen in 70A13 is of a crater just about at
the edge of the left side of the "mouth", if in fact the "mouth" were
to continue in bilateraly symmetrical fashion.  This crater seems to be
in the middle of a small ridge which runs vertically, according to the
facial interpretation of the image, and so makes the face even less
symmetrical.  The crater is about as big as the "eye" of the upper
right part of the "face", is distinctly round and very dark.  Cleaning,
smoothing and edge enhancement of 70A13 brings out these asymmetries
even more.  However, histogram equalization makes it look like a face
again, because it increases the contrast so as to make the asymmetrical
features less visible.

In sum, 70A13 has enough detail to convince most people that the "Face"
is not symmetrical, and is not a face.  The facial appearance depends
mainly on the apparent symmetry of the formation, and this apparent
symmetry is supplied by the mind of the viewer, not by the data.

end quoted article

--
              [e-mail]
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!ringer!lonestar.utsa.edu!tmyer
From: [e-mail] (Thomas O. Myer)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Significance of 10/12/92
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 5 Mar 92 18:16:14 GMT
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: University of Texas at San Antonio
Lines: 13
Nntp-Posting-Host: lonestar.utsa.edu


This is in response to some idiot with no formal schooling whatsoever
in the basic fundamentals of history, and who obviously lives in a
dreamworld of his very own.

The significance of October 12, 1992 is quite simple, my friend.  It is
the five hundredth anniversery of Columbus' discovery of the Americas.

--
******************************************************************************
* Thomas Myer (aka Attila the Hun, Esq)       **  "Kill them all, and        *
* send hate mail to: [e-mail]  **   let God sort them out."   *
******************************************************************************
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uakari.primate.wisc.edu!ames!stanford.edu!bu.edu!buast7.bu.edu!kuchar
From: [e-mail] (Tom Kuchar)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 5 Mar 92 18:36:05 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors
Organization: Astronomy Department, Boston University, Boston, MA, USA
Lines: 13
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4798 sci.space:27425 sci.skeptic:21473 alt.paranormal:4585


Is there an FTP site to pick up images of the `face'?  I have a GIF
image of the region with only one view, the one that makes it on
tabloid covers. I have only seen this one view and had thought that
only one view had existed.  I would be interested in seeing the
`other' side of the face.


--
Tom Kuchar
[e-mail]
Department of Astronomy
Boston Univerity
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!mips!decwrl!access.usask.ca!ccu.umanitoba.ca!umrutko0
From: [e-mail] (Chris Rutkowski)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Crop Circles
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 5 Mar 92 20:58:33 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada
Lines: 49

In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Michael Corbin) writes:


> > Yes, the British "Euclidean circles" are interesting, BUT you should be
> > aware that the Mandelbrot formation is largely thought to be a hoax.
> > Furthermore, many people who have viewed the video of the "disc" over
> > the field think that it looked more like a piece of chaff or paper
> > being carried on the wind.

>Chris, could you please expand on your above statement about the Mandelbrot
>formation?  I would appreciate hearing this in more detail.  Also, that disk

As you have noted in my e-mail to you, many cerealogists, in addition
to debunkers (!) now believe that a large percentage of crop circles
are hoaxes.

>that you refer to is highly suspicious.  I viewed the tape that was
>distributed by Colin Andrews of the disk flying around the wheat and moving
>over the hedges until it moves up the hill some distance off and disappears.
>What I cannot figure out from watching that video is the lack of diminishing
>size of the object as it moves ever farther from the camera.  I heard Colin
>say that the opposite hill is approximately three miles away from the
>photographer, and yet the object does not seem to get smaller as it moves
>away.  Additionally, I suspect that it could also be some type of RPV.

I have seen the video several times, and it still looks like a piece of
jetsam.  I think the brightness of the object causes an internal
illusion for the camera, and it looks like it stays the same size.  It
DOES decrease somewhat, after all, but not as much as is intuitively
so.

>What are your thoughts on this as well?

>Finally, I have seen your postings on Fido.  Are you actually operating a BBS
>of your own?  If so, I would like to discuss something with you.  Could you
>please netmail me here at [e-mail].

>Thanks,

>Mike

>--
>Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
>UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
>INTERNET: [e-mail]
--
Chris Rutkowski - [e-mail]
Royal Astronomical Society of Canada
University of Manitoba - Winnipeg, Canada
Path: ns-mx!uunet!usc!ucla-cs!ucla-se!mott!mitch
From: [e-mail] (Robert R. Mitchell (SEAS admin))
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: The Meier Chronicles...
Keywords: Review Footage
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 5 Mar 92 20:58:25 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <1992Mar3.182128.20354@anasaz> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: SEASnet, University of California, Los Angeles
Lines: 14



I happened upon "The Meier Chronicles" at the local video store
last week.  Interesting if not convincing.  Now I've seen
someone here imply that Meier is a hoaxer.   Could somebody
please post a summary of the evidence for and against this
case being a hoax?


--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DISCLAIMER:
"Don't blame _me_, _I_ didn't do it!" --Krusty the Clown
"Ididn'tdoitnobodysawmeyoucan'tproveanything!" --Bartman
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!mips!spool.mu.edu!mixcom.com!jjwwjj
From: [e-mail] (Robotic Systems)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: TO: CHRIS BARRUS   RE: QUICKTIME
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 5 Mar 92 21:46:11 GMT
Organization: Milwaukee Internet Xchange BBS, Milwaukee, WI U.S.A.
Lines: 20

Chris -

I've tried twice to reach you but I keep getting bounced back.

I have been looking for a QuickTime version of the Zapruder film
for some time. I would very much like to see your HyperCard stack.

Can you send it to me? I could uuencode it and post it if you
haven't found someone else to do it yet.

Thanks.



--
===============================================================================
ROBOTIC SYSTEMS, INC.                                           CLINT LASKOWSKI
P. O. Box 552                                                    [phone]
Cudahy, Wisconsin  53110-0552                                 [e-mail]
===============================================================================
Path: ns-mx!uunet!Cadence.COM!jdm
From: [e-mail] (Joe Mastroianni)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: October 12, 1992
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 5 Mar 92 17:00:41 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Cadence Design Systems, Inc.
Lines: 15

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Albert Peter Michael) writes:
>Can someone please explain the significance of this date?
>
>Thanks,
>Al

 I got it. Columbus day. What do I win?

 Joe

--
Joe Mastroianni          AKA: AA6YD  AA6YD @ N6LDL.#NOCAL.CA.USA.NA
Cadence Design Systems
Santa Clara Ca.          "Up the airy mountain;down the rushy glen; we
[e-mail]           daren't go a hunting; for fear of little men "
Path: ns-mx!uunet!wupost!uwm.edu!linac!att!att!fang!tarpit!tous!bilver!dona
From: [e-mail] (Don Allen)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: FILE: Orvotron Newsletter for Mar-April 92 - Part 2
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 5 Mar 92 21:07:35 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL
Lines: 38

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Jack Campin) writes:
>
>Translation: "I am an inadequate fantasist who can't deal with public debate
>but I'll ram my bullshit down the throats of a world audience anyway".
>
>I asked Don Allen (last year) to provide a source for the Brighton (UK)
>reference in his table of UFO sightings, so I could look it up in local
>reference libraries.  No such source was forthcoming.  If he was lying
>about that one, why should you believe him on the others?
>

With an attitude like that, it will be until hell freezes over that I
provide *anything* to you.

What's S'matter...forget to take your mood drugs for the day?

I ignored your previous request because of your obvious RUDE and pushy
behaviour which told me that you were most likely an ASSHOLE. You just
(again) proved it to the entire newsgroup.

I don't NEED your attitude..peddle it somewhere else.

>Somehow it doesn't come as a surprise that saucerheads could erect a
>religion on not being able to tell the difference.
>

And you are far superior to those "saucerheads", right?

Gimme a break!

Don


--
-* Don Allen *-               // Only   | Are you ready for SETI?
Internet: [e-mail]  \X/ Amiga   | Oct 12,1992 - ET comes to NM
UUCP: .........uunet!peora!bilver!dona  | The *real* "October Surprise"
Psi-Tech and alien brain-wave research -- Whats going on at Los Alamos?
Path: ns-mx!uunet!usc!cs.utexas.edu!wotan.compaq.com!twisto.eng.hou.compaq.com!sword.eng.hou.compaq.com!mccreary
From: [e-mail] (Ed McCreary)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Mar 92 14:53:45 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Netnews Account)
Organization: Compaq Computer Corp.
Lines: 20

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Tom Kuchar) writes:
>
>Is there an FTP site to pick up images of the `face'?  I have a GIF
>image of the region with only one view, the one that makes it on
>tabloid covers. I have only seen this one view and had thought that
>only one view had existed.  I would be interested in seeing the
>`other' side of the face.
>

There's two pictures, but both are taken from similar angles.  If
anyone has the space, I have the original two images and am willing to
upload them to an ftp site.  Please don't ask me to post or mail them,
they're over 1MB each.


--
[e-mail]     Computers are like Old Testament gods;
[e-mail]                      lots of rules and no mercy.
#include <stddisclaimer.h>                                  Joseph Campbell
                "Ah, this will simpify *everything*!"
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!usc!wupost!news.utdallas.edu!tamsun!inetg1!ut-emx!ibmchs!auschs!awdprime!woofer.austin.ibm.com!jlpicard
From: [e-mail] (Craig Becker)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: More Dead Bodies
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Mar 92 15:07:48 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Organization: IBM Object Technology Products
Lines: 12

[e-mail] (Steve Urich) writes:
...
    [Dead ET stuff deleted]
...

Steve, where was this article published?

Craig
-- "To every man is given the     Craig Becker, Object Technology Products --
--  key to the gates of heaven;         Internet: [e-mail] --
--  the same key opens the gates      Austin: [e-mail] --
--  of hell" - Buddhist proverb                     VNET: CRAIGB at AUSVM1 --
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!sei.cmu.edu!fs7.ece.cmu.edu!crabapple.srv.cs.cmu.edu!andrew.cmu.edu!ql04+
From: [e-mail] (Questor Lau)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Circles in the fields
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Mar 92 18:37:07 GMT
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Lines: 26


    It has been suggested once or twice that these circles that we are
witnessing were at one time made by ETs
                        BECAUSE
                                it was their intention to gradually allow those who could not
accept the presence of aliens to at least begin to entertain the
possibility of otherworld intelligence.

    With this in mind, the veracity of  the circles is irrelevant. The
issue as I see it was never one of validity but of potentility, of Hope.
 (I wonder....)
    The initial purpose of the circles has been served. And now, regardless
of the origin of these new circles, more and more people have begun to
ask questions. The Door opens that much more.

    However, if this audience still wishes to further discuss this topic,
allow me to contribute this little tid bit... Why doesn't anyone do a
square or triangle? Polygons that are not round have a right to be seen
in fields too, do they not?
===========================================
"Even imaginary cookie
     taste good."
                            Cookie Monster  8(0)

  Ahm-num-num-num-num-num!!!
==========================================
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!yale.edu!jvnc.net!darwin.sura.net!Sirius.dfn.de!zrz.tu-berlin.de!news.netmbx.de!zelator!leo
From: [e-mail] (Stefan Hartmann)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: UFO Video-Photo-Document Part2
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Mar 92 12:30:26 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Puplic-Access-Xenix-System
Lines: 46

In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Steve Urich) writes:

>[e-mail] (Clark Matthews) writes:
>[My Stuff and Clarks responses were here]

>>That sounds like the stills I have on my BBS!  The GIF files I have are pretty good quality, but low-res (320x200).  Nasty looking little thing, isn't it?  Like you I have no idea what it could be...

>    Ahh Yes, the Gifs you have on your BBS sound like they came from the
>    same origin. It seems we will have to wait on some better pictures
>    and videos of future alien specimens also :-)

>>Best,
>>  Clark

>    Steve
>--
> ############### Stephen Urich WB3FTP |"Starlightbeams project ###############
> ##|_|########## Bensalem, PA  USA    |me in Red Blue and Green##|_|##########
> ###############----------------------|Velvetdreams protect me ###############
> ####       #### snark!beyonet!beyo   |when I hit the Screen"  ####       ####
> ##    |_|    ## widener!beyonet!beyo |--Alan Parsons Project  ##    |_|    ##
> ##           ##-----------------------------------------------##           ##
> ####       ####  Packet Radio: WB3FTP@WA3NWL.#EPA.PA.USA.NA   ####       ####
>_###############_______________________________________________###############_

Hello,

please upload the mentioned GIF-pics to phoenix.oulu.fi (130.231.240.17)
into directory pub/incoming.
Then the sysop Jari will put them to ufo_and_space_pics directory, so we all
can download and have a look at it !
Or send them in uuencoded form to my email account and I will upload them
for You via FTP !

Best regards, Stefan Hartmann,c/o Workshop for
Decentral Energy Research
email to: [e-mail]


--

*******************************************************************************
*  Stefan Hartmann       This is how to contact me:                           *
*  EMAIL: [e-mail]                                            *
*  Phone : ++ 49 30 344 23 66      FAX : ++ 49 30 344 92 79                   *
*******************************************************************************
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!yale.edu!jvnc.net!darwin.sura.net!Sirius.dfn.de!zrz.tu-berlin.de!news.netmbx.de!zelator!leo
From: [e-mail] (Stefan Hartmann)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: The Meier Chronicles...
Keywords: Review Footage
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Mar 92 12:35:54 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <1992Mar3.182128.20354@anasaz> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Puplic-Access-Xenix-System
Lines: 36

In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Robert R. Mitchell (SEAS admin)) writes:



>I happened upon "The Meier Chronicles" at the local video store
>last week.  Interesting if not convincing.  Now I've seen
>someone here imply that Meier is a hoaxer.   Could somebody
>please post a summary of the evidence for and against this
>case being a hoax?


>--
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>DISCLAIMER:
>"Don't blame _me_, _I_ didn't do it!" --Krusty the Clown
>"Ididn'tdoitnobodysawmeyoucan'tproveanything!" --Bartman

Yes, please post all about it  !

Where can I buy such a video-tape ? Or other UFO-sighting tapes ?

I wanna digitize a few sequences and make them available via FTP !

Any answer is welcome.
Best regards, Stefan Hartmann,c/o Workshop for
Decentral Energy Research
email to: [e-mail]


--

*******************************************************************************
*  Stefan Hartmann       This is how to contact me:                           *
*  EMAIL: [e-mail]                                            *
*  Phone : ++ 49 30 344 23 66      FAX : ++ 49 30 344 92 79                   *
*******************************************************************************
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!usc!wupost!decwrl!access.usask.ca!ccu.umanitoba.ca!roholdr
From: [e-mail] (R Ross Holder Jr)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: The "FACE" from sci.space
Keywords: In case you don't read sci.space...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Mar 92 22:56:27 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada
Lines: 123
Nntp-Posting-Host: benford.cc.umanitoba.ca

In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (jcj)
writes:

>begin quoted article

>From: "UTADNX::UTDSSA::GREER"@utspan.span.nasa.gov
>Newsgroups: sci.space
>Subject: Yet Another Last Word on "The Face"
>Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
>Date: 28 Feb 92 17:49:19 GMT

>There are two images of "The Face" on Mars, designated 35A72 and 70A13.

>Image 35A72 is the one that looks most like a face, and as a
>consequence is the one most frequently published in support of Face
>assertions.  In this one the Sun is 10 degrees above the horizon, so
>the shadows are deep and long.  The shadow of the "Face's" peak is
>about as long as the "Face" is wide.  Thus, since the structure is
>about a mile wide, the peak must be about 900 ft, or 300 m tall.  There
>is more noise in 35A72 than in 70A13, but it doesn't change the image
>since it consists of distinct data dropouts and spikes rather than
>fuzziness in the image.

Uh huh...in other words, the face looks like a face because the signal was
mildly distorted.  Isn't that a little like the "random geological formation
argument"?  These random "data dropouts and spikes" produce an image analogous
to what looks like a face.

>The unprocessed data of 35A72 is very low in contrast and very dim.
>After cleaning, smoothing, and histogram equalization, 35A72 looks very
>much like the image most people have seen published.  The main
>difference is made by the histogram equalization which increases the
>contrast tremendously, and brings out the features which seem most
>face-like.

That's convenient.  So brightening the image is distorting the true physical
appearance of the face to make it look like a face.  And yet if the image
isn't brightened it doesn't look like anything - except maybe dark.  It
should be noted that this doesn't explain why other features in the photos
that I've seen look as they should; craters look like craters, the terrain
looks alot like terrain.  This "brightening" only affected the appearance of
the face?

>In 70A13, the Sun's altitude is 27 degrees, so that the peak shadow is
>not distinctly visible.  The unprocessed image is low in contrast, but
>not as low as 35A72, and much brighter.  In the unprocessed image
>several non-face-like features are evident.  The part that appears to
>be a nose in published images veers sharply upward, taking the "mouth"
>and "chin" along with it, destroying the supposed symmetry of the lower
>part of the face.  The "hair" or "helmet" of the "face" is now seen to
>be a berm, approximately "L" shaped rather than "U" shaped as it ought
>to be for bilateral symmetry.  This "L" connects up with the top left
>portion of the "nose", going right over where the the left eye would
>be, if the left eye existed.

I haven't seen this photo anywhere.  And I, for one, would enjoy seeing it.
You'd think that someone would have produced this photo a long time ago
to try and lay this issue to rest.  Perhaps I've somehow missed seeing it
along the way, but I would like to think I've made some effort to stay
informed on this issue.

Another question in my mind is why should this photo be taken as evidence
that the face isn't a face?  I mean how many times has it been argued that
the face couldn't possibly be a face even though it looks like one; and
now there's talk of an image in existance that makes it look as if the face
isn't really a face.  How do we know the second photograph isn't the one
that's "distorted"?

>The most striking feature seen in 70A13 is of a crater just about at
>the edge of the left side of the "mouth", if in fact the "mouth" were
>to continue in bilateraly symmetrical fashion.  This crater seems to be
>in the middle of a small ridge which runs vertically, according to the
>facial interpretation of the image, and so makes the face even less
>symmetrical.  The crater is about as big as the "eye" of the upper
>right part of the "face", is distinctly round and very dark.  Cleaning,
>smoothing and edge enhancement of 70A13 brings out these asymmetries
>even more.  However, histogram equalization makes it look like a face
>again, because it increases the contrast so as to make the asymmetrical
>features less visible.

The previously "invisible crater" referred to above is an interesting point.
The existance of such a crater might indicate that "the face" was subject
to anything from a meteor collision to erosion.  Its existance doesn't mean
the face isn't (or is) a face.

>In sum, 70A13 has enough detail to convince most people that the "Face"
>is not symmetrical, and is not a face.  The facial appearance depends
>mainly on the apparent symmetry of the formation, and this apparent
>symmetry is supplied by the mind of the viewer, not by the data.

How can this be?  Was there a poll taken?  And how could "the data" show
that there was enough symmetry in all the images taken to conclusively
prove beyond all doubt that that face is or is not a face?  Many of
Picasso's images don't look like faces to me - yet experts tell me that
such images are not only faces, but reflections of people.

>end quoted article

>--
>              [e-mail]

This does not conclusively demonstrate "the face's" disorganized nature.  It
also thoroughly fails to address why "the face" is in such close proximity
to a number of other geological phenomena that, from the photos, look like
pyramids.  Perhaps these also were geological formations, the result of
distorted signals, or apparent symmetries that are purely a figment of my
overactive imagination.

I note in the header of the article quoted that the origin was an address
at NASA.  The jargon used in the article suggests to me that the writer was
affiliated with NASA in some way, although in fact I have no idea.  If some
one could clear this up, it'd be appreciated.  If the writer was affiliated
with NASA (which is a government agency), it would probably be incumbent
upon him to respond to "the face" by playing down the quality of the image
received.  After all, we all know that all that alien stuff is horse-puckey
anyway, isn't it?

 ---------------------------------------------------------------
|R. Ross Holder, Jr.             | Home Address:                |
|([e-mail])     | 410-424 River Avenue         |
|Department of Philosophy     | Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada   |
|The University of Manitoba     | R3L 0C6   PH#: [phone]|
 ---------------------------------------------------------------
Path: ns-mx!uunet!cbmvax!vanth!jms
From: [e-mail] (Jim Shaffer)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Significance of 10/12/92
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Mar 92 17:55:59 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: The 'Jinky the Fruit Bat' Fan Club
Lines: 19

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Thomas O. Myer) writes:
>
>This is in response to some idiot with no formal schooling whatsoever
>in the basic fundamentals of history, and who obviously lives in a
>dreamworld of his very own.

And what is *your* problem?  First, perhaps the original poster wanted to
know what October 12 had to do with UFOlogy.  Second, maybe he, like me,
doesn't devote memory space to the number of largely pointless holidays we
have.  I certainly consider myself educated, but except for the SETI
project and the alien landing stuff I probably wouldn't know when Columbus
Day was either.  I might be able to vaguely remember October, but the 12th?
Where's the point in memorizing that?

--
 *  From the disk of: | [e-mail]                 | "They don't tell me
 Jim Shaffer, Jr.     | uunet!cbmvax!vanth!jms         | nothin', so I find
 37 Brook Street      | [e-mail] | out all I can."
 Montgomery, PA 17752 | [e-mail]      |      (Phil Collins)
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!mcsun!news.funet.fi!network.jyu.fi!tola
From: [e-mail] (Teemu Olavi Lahteenmaki)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Mar 92 23:50:02 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: University of Jyvaskyla, Finland
Lines: 11

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Tom Kuchar) writes:

>Is there an FTP site to pick up images of the `face'?  I have a GIF

I have understood that phoenix.oulu.fi is trying to be the place for
UFO (alien etc..) related pictures.


--

-< Would you believe there's no signature here ? >-
Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!news.funet.fi!network.jyu.fi!tola
From: [e-mail] (Teemu Olavi Lahteenmaki)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Mar 92 23:50:02 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: University of Jyvaskyla, Finland
Lines: 11

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Tom Kuchar) writes:

>Is there an FTP site to pick up images of the `face'?  I have a GIF

I have understood that phoenix.oulu.fi is trying to be the place for
UFO (alien etc..) related pictures.


--

-< Would you believe there's no signature here ? >-
Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!unido!nixpbe!murignis!ap542!anubis!mike
From: [e-mail] (Mike Hoffmann)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: PLANETCOM
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 7 Mar 92 09:51:32 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (News Admin)
Organization: Siemens-Nixdorf AG, AP 712
Lines: 36

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Raven Tengu of Kyoto) writes:
>(Posted with permission by author.)

>                  Concerning "Revelations"
>                   author-Jacques Vallee
>                      January 15, 1992
> [...tons and tons and TONS of junk deleted...]

Excuse me, while I go out and laugh my head off...
...
...
...

Thank you. I feel better now.

I haven't had that much fun, since I read Illuminatus! :-)

Now could someone please phone those Nazi scientists and tell them we Germans
have gotten our metallurgy and casting act together and would they please
come home, so that we can now go on to conquer the world?

Oh and just on the side: anyone care to tell me how Tibetan Buddhists
come to count these bio-monsters/aliens as non-sentient beings? Is each one
of these hyper-secret vat-products flown to the Dalai Lhama and given a
certificate or a warranty card?

And another thing... nah, it just ain't worth it!

Mike
--
Mike Hoffmann, Siemens-Nixdorf AG, SNI AP 712
INTERNET: [e-mail]
DAVE BARRY'S 1991 IN REVIEW -- January 1st: "The new year dawns with Iraqi
dictator Saddam Hussein arrogantly thumbing his nose at international law.
Little does this homicidal bully realize that, although he is riding high now,
before the year is over, he will be, um, almost a year older."
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!fnal.fnal.gov!birmingh
From: [e-mail] (Phillip J. Birmingham)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 7 Mar 92 14:40:13 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <zzzk.699178139@jacobs>
Sender: [e-mail] (The Daily Lose)
Organization: Crazed Killfile Wielders
Lines: 20
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4814 sci.space:27502 sci.skeptic:21604 alt.paranormal:4588

In article <zzzk.699178139@jacobs>, [e-mail] (Ken Eshelby) writes:
    Extreme clippage...

>   It seems everyone is caught up on this face thing, and seem to regard
>   the rest of the unusual objects on Cydonia, LIKE:  what about the
>   complex that seems to be east of the face mesa?  The whole city
>   fascinated me.  Was that all hooey?  Even the "Fort" and the "D&M
>   Pyramid" and the calculations of the rise of the summer solstice with
>   the cliff as a flat back drop, could be a result of a low res picture.

    And, for God's sake, let's check out that giant Kermit the Frog (shown
in the Whole Earth book _The Fringes of Reason_.)

>
> -ken
--
   Phillip J. Birmingham
   [e-mail]  Branch offices at: [e-mail]
   "But I was young and foolish then/ I feel old and foolish now."
    --They Might Be Giants, "I Lost my Lucky Ball and Chain"
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!spool.mu.edu!olivea!veritas!amdcad!netcomsv!ctedge!djk
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Significance of 10/12/92
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 7 Mar 92 22:01:07 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: NMS&Systems Engineering
Lines: 23

[e-mail] (Jim Shaffer) writes:

> have.  I certainly consider myself educated, but except for the SETI
> project and the alien landing stuff I probably wouldn't know when Columbus
> Day was either.  I might be able to vaguely remember October, but the 12th?
> Where's the point in memorizing that?
>
> --
>  *  From the disk of: | [e-mail]                 | "They don't tell me
>  Jim Shaffer, Jr.     | uunet!cbmvax!vanth!jms         | nothin', so I find
>  37 Brook Street      | [e-mail] | out all I can."
>  Montgomery, PA 17752 | [e-mail]      |      (Phil Collins)


Ahhhhhhhh..... Elementary! - You do that so you may tell others that
they are uneducated for ignoring the date!! ;)

-djk

--- Daniel J. Karnes / WA6NDT --------------------------------------
---- NMS&Systems Engineering ---------------------------------------
--- [e-mail] / [e-mail] --------------------------
- 'Innovative solutions for modern problems' -----------------------
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!sei.cmu.edu!fs7.ece.cmu.edu!crabapple.srv.cs.cmu.edu!andrew.cmu.edu!am3z+
From: [e-mail] (Albert Peter Michael)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: October 12, 1992
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Mar 92 18:15:14 GMT
Organization: Junior, IM - H&SS Track, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Lines: 8

I could care less about Columbus Day. I just always saw some reference
to that date in Don Allen's .sig and couldn't make mail get to him to
ask. So bite me.

It has to do with ALIENS, you see, this is a bboard about ALIENS, and
that's what I wanted to know about. (Tom)

Al
Path: ns-mx!uunet!spool.mu.edu!agate!dog.ee.lbl.gov!hellgate.utah.edu!csn!ub!niktow!lavigne
From: [e-mail] (Joe LaVigne)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.pagan,alt.paranormal,talk.religion.newage
Subject: Re: Creating Peace On Earth by 2000 !
Summary: I Have to agree for once!
Keywords: Peace Clock, fnord
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 8 Mar 92 09:41:59 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors
Organization: Canisius College, Buffalo NY. 14208
Lines: 34
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4817 alt.pagan:13361 alt.paranormal:4590 talk.religion.newage:9684

> We are sitting on the verge of the 21st Century, communicating on a computer
> net that would have been impossible 20 years ago, and for what? So we can all
> sit in our comfy chairs with a can of celery juice and IMAGINE peace into
> existance. GREAT. I guess the massive changes in Europe and the (ex-) USSR
> were due to IMAGINING. I guess we can just IMAGINE a Democratic president
> into office, IMAGINE ourselves a better world, IMAGINE contact with other
> intelligences, IMAGINE immortality and intelligence increase. DUH. We should
> be out DOING these things with the aid of high-tech; a world where people can
> communicate world-wide over the Internet and can publish their own books
> (literally!) on their desktops is a world where we can MAKE great things
> instead of just IMAGINING them.
> But, if you want... imagine away. Maybe it WILL help. Just DO something to
> back it up.
>                     --Tog


Okay, so I must say that agreeing with things is not my strong suit, BUT
this whole imagining thing seems a bit hinduistic to me.  Total separation
of mind and Earth, and what you think in meditation will come true if it
is the will of the worthless spirits here.

If we want peace on earth, like Tog said, we have to work at it.  The only
thing that imagination is going to help with is getting the people that
believe in that stuff to go out and do thier best to work at world peace.
I personally do not at all believe in meditation, and so I will not wake up
at 12:00 to do it!  :-)

*****************************************************************************
* Joseph Lavigne          /                   The one with the terriffic    *
* @ Canisius College     /                    Outlook on life.  I really    *
*                       /                     love you all!          :-)    *
*****************************************************************************
NOT!

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pitt.edu!dsinc!ub!niktow!lavigne
From: [e-mail] (Joe LaVigne)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: INVASION!!!
Summary: Open minded?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 8 Mar 92 09:48:31 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Canisius College, Buffalo NY. 14208
Lines: 24

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Ian Chard) writes:
> > ... brilliantly written fiction deleted ...
>
> That's just a great story!  Seriously, though, I truly believe that anyone
> who has gone through such an ordeal would sell it to the Enquirer, not post
> it on Usenet!  And I'm not saying that such things happen, either.  We have
> all had dreams which seem real enough the next day... hell, I can remember
> going into town seriously expecting it to be under three feet of water!
>
> Gary, you are not helping yourself by posting this fiction.  If you really
> believe what you are saying, then you should be committed to a suitable
> institution.  Either that, or join the British Government...

Try to keep an open mind about these types of things.  There is no SOLID
evidence to support either side of the issue, so why should he be committed
just because he saw something and you don't believe it?

As far as selling it to the enquirer goes, all that would do is ruin any
shred of reality in his story.

Whether he saw a UFO or not is not YOUR choice to make, unless of course
you happen to be a high payed NASA scientist.

                                                  -Joe
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From: [e-mail] (Rich Payne)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Creating Peace On Earth by 2000!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Mar 92 20:51:17 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)
Lines: 149

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Questor Lau) writes:
>
>   It has been argued that *action* is more important than *imagination*
>since action causes change and imagination is just wishful thinking. For
>example:
>
>>In article <[e-mail]>
>[e-mail] (
>>Jesse Flint) writes:
>
>>I guess the massive changes in Europe and the (ex-) USSR
>>were due to IMAGINING. I guess we can just IMAGINE a Democratic president
>>into office, IMAGINE ourselves a better world, IMAGINE contact with other
>>intelligences, IMAGINE immortality and intelligence increase.
>>But, if you want... imagine away. Maybe it WILL help. Just DO something to
>>back it up.
>
>    Ah, but remember it was also people who *did take action that got us
>into world wars, government money scandals, drug wars, homicide, rape,
>suicide, etc. etc.
>    On the other hand, there have also been positive action by those who
>would make life better for mankind.

The intent may be good, but the methods usually require massive sacrifices
and undesired changes by others.

Personally, I doubt that there is any utopia that all would find
desirable.

                    There have been many useful
>inventions (which I believe are IMAGINATION transformed into action).
>But before there was action, there was that focussed mental energy,
>intentionality, thought, and planning... there was IMAGINATION!!!

There are many people with imagination who cannot be moved to action
by anything short of an earthquake ( greater than 6.5 ). And there
are many who take action who seemingly have no imagination. You
seem to be implying that imagination is a requirement for action.
Are you? I can be moved to action by hunger, the need for money
(to work), or any number of things that require no imagination
whatsoever. I can use my imagination, or not. Usually it is easier
not to.

And there is no requirement for "intentionality, thought, and planning"
for one to take action. Some take action as soon as they get the idea.
This was the way I did things for years. Saw Grand Canyon on a whim on
a long weekend, although walking down and up the canyon in a day was
not the best decision. Zero planning was done. Today they say,
"just do it".

>    For those of you who need some form of scientific proof to grab
>ahold of before you allow yourselves to subscribe to any particular
>doctorine, consider that there are so many aspects of human
>consciousness that we have yet to discover,

And perhaps human consciousness is evolving as we learn more about
the universe.

                    why couldn't meditation make
>a difference in world affairs? Has an experiment ever been done where

Have not the Indian yogi's(?) done this for years? Has the meditation
being done now made any difference? I think that the value or lack
of should be demonstratable with present data.

>researchers have separated world affairs into group A: that was not
>allowed to say one prayer nor to visualize peace and second group B: the
>control? Hmmm?

If it works, what need is there for a control group? And indeed,
what would it matter?

>   Here, I elaborate a little on the power of the mind to influence how
>and what we see.
>    Research has established that subjects exposed to a musical score
>through dichotic listening (where sound -- be it human voices or music
>-- is projected into both ears and the subject told to attend to only
>one ear) prefer the familiar tune over another tune they have never
>heard before.

I do not understand this. Where in the above description is there
any room for preferance? Are they given different sounds in each ear?

[stuff deleted]

>    Maybe not. I think there are some of us who are able to use their
>IMAGINATION to anchor perspectives such as Bashar and the steps to
>creating Peace on Earth. Just because the Peace on Earth Meditation
>*sounds absurd doesn't mean that the message the voice carries is also
>absurd. Go past the criticisms and initial resistance you might have
>towards Bashar. Try "Seeing" what's out there with new eyes you have
>never tried to use before.

If Bashar has such a good idea,  and imagination indeed moves one
to action, then let his imagination move others.

>    The question that I sought to answer was: what role does IMAGINATION
>play in the DOING stage of action? After considering the information on
>hypnosis and dichotic listening it would appear that the unconscious
>mind (our IMAGINATION) plays an important role in determining how and
>what we see/DO in the world. To downplay imagination is to also degrade

Wait a minute, how do you get "unconscious mind"=IMAGINATION?
There are many aspects of the mind, and you have not demonstrated
that imagination plays any role (major of otherwise) in a desire
for the familiar (who needs imagination for this?) or hypnosis
(where I suspect imagination is suspended). I cannot connect the
research you mentioned to the imagination, or the imagination
moving one to action.

>the importance of the mind which it is a part of.
>   Provided with this scientific evidence, the possibility exists that
>IMAGINATION does indeed play a key role in producing thoughts. Thoughts
>which find their fulfillment in action are all part of a system. As
>Walter puts it: >Thoughts are things, and very important things, since
>they are behind all >action.

I do not think it is true at all that "they are behind all >action."
Accidentally touch a hot stove, unlike the cartoons, you will not
wait till you notice that your hand is on fire, you will act beyond
thought and pull your hand away. Reflexive motion is real, and not
motivated by concious thought. Personally, I think we are more likely
to be moved to action by our feelings than our thoughts. We may
later rationalize what we did, but that is thought after the action.

>   Perhaps then the message Tog, Walter, and I have been saying should
>thus be modified to: balance and moderation in all things is best.
>ACTION and DOING is important but so is IMAGINATION.

Imagination is important, I agree. But it is not a prime mover.


>    What is your balance and what is considered moderate for you? You
>decide. But when you do, ask yourself: Is it you who has decided or
>those subtle influences inside your head?

And how would you tell the differance? And what indeed is the differance?

>===========================================
>"Even imaginary cookie
>     taste good."
>                            Cookie Monster  8(0)
>
>  Ahm-num-num-num-num-num!!!
>==========================================

Rich

[e-mail]
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From: [e-mail] (Chris Rutkowski)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Circles in the fields
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 7 Mar 92 19:33:55 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada
Lines: 38

In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Questor Lau) writes:


>    It has been suggested once or twice that these circles that we are
>witnessing were at one time made by ETs
>                        BECAUSE
>                                it was their intention to gradually allow those who could not
>accept the presence of aliens to at least begin to entertain the
>possibility of otherworld intelligence.

>    With this in mind, the veracity of  the circles is irrelevant. The
>issue as I see it was never one of validity but of potentility, of Hope.
> (I wonder....)
>    The initial purpose of the circles has been served. And now, regardless
>of the origin of these new circles, more and more people have begun to
>ask questions. The Door opens that much more.

>    However, if this audience still wishes to further discuss this topic,
>allow me to contribute this little tid bit... Why doesn't anyone do a
>square or triangle? Polygons that are not round have a right to be seen
>in fields too, do they not?
.............................................

Several triangles have been found, not only in Britain, but also in
Alberta last year.  Rectangles have also been part of British
formations.  Next question.

>===========================================
>"Even imaginary cookie
>     taste good."
>                            Cookie Monster  8(0)

>  Ahm-num-num-num-num-num!!!
>==========================================
--
Chris Rutkowski - [e-mail]
Royal Astronomical Society of Canada
University of Manitoba - Winnipeg, Canada
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From: [e-mail] (Nicholas C. Hester)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Creating Peace On Earth by 2000 !
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 7 Mar 92 14:30:52 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
 <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: University of Maine System
Lines: 14
Xref: ns-mx alt.pagan:13366 alt.alien.visitors:4821

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (markbr) says:
>
>A Democratic candidate may not be JFK, or Robert Redford, or whoever you
>think they 'ought' to be (though I haven't heard one suggestion other than
>Cuomo), but do you *really* want four more years of the Republicans?

Actually, since the Dems have controlled the Congress, and haven't
gotten their act together either,  I'd rather vote Libertarian.
__
                         |/                                                  |
 Nicholas C. Hester      | "..if you're ever up for a game of dice, I 'roll'  |
[e-mail]     |  with the best of them."                           |
[e-mail]  |                      -Angel Fish, "Fish Police"    |
                         |                                                  /|
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From: [e-mail] (Gordon Bruce)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?
Summary: Face on Mars
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 7 Mar 92 05:46:33 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Followup-To: poster
Organization: Stanton Public Domain Systems, Stanton, Ca.
Lines: 46
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4822 sci.space:27564 sci.skeptic:21660 alt.paranormal:4592

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Dave Zecchini) writes:
> Josh,
>
> You really want me to give you odds?
>
> Well, to answer your question, I HAVE seen both of the images...(and in
> addition, the images from a book called "The Face on Mars" that I picked
> up in the library.  If you want to see enhanced images, THAT book has
> images that are INCREDIBLY over-enhanced.)

Dave,

I would like make a comment here, if I may.

I have seen the enhanced images as well as the images in Hogland's book
"The Face on Mars".  I have also seen the images as they look before
enhancement.

Perhaps I am misinterpreting your statement, but the implication seems to be
that the enhanced, and published images, distort the original tape images.
It seems that you may be suggesting that the enhanced images attempt to
present objects that are obviously natural as artifacts. This is not so.

Comparing the enhanced images to the images before enhancement does not
indicate that either the published or the unpublished photos (that I
have seen) distort the original images.

The "Face" is a face and the "Pyramids" are pyramids in the photos before
enhancement.  Whether the features are natural or artifacts is another
matter.  There is just not enough data, at this time, to make a judgment
based on the facts.

If the features are artifacts, it would be one of the greatest discoveries
ever made.  If they are natural, then they are natural and we will still
have no hard evidence of another intelligence in the universe.  I, for one, r
would like to have enough information to know, for sure, one way or the
other.

Gordon

--
===============================================================================
| Gordon Bruce; DataComm Consultant |  The opinions expressed here are mine   |
| [e-mail]             |  and are not necessarily the opinions   |
| stanton!bruce                     |  of my clients or employers.            |
===============================================================================
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From: [e-mail] (Gordon Bruce)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?
Summary: Faces only visible from above
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 7 Mar 92 07:10:56 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Followup-To: poster
Organization: Stanton Public Domain Systems, Stanton, Ca.
Lines: 58
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4823 sci.space:27565 sci.skeptic:21661 alt.paranormal:4593

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Scott D. Young) writes:
>
>    A question...if they are left by some long-dead civilization, why is it
>    we only found a face, and not football stadiums or cities or nuclear
>    reactors?  I mean, if you are going to build something, and you can only
>    build one "something" of such huge size (time/effort constraints, whatever)
>    how many people would build a face that only hypothetical "aliens" (as in
>    non-Martians) could see? ...

>       Such blatant stupidity and waste of resources *could* explain why these
>    Martians aren't around anymore, though.    ...


Scott,

Although it does not have much to do with civilizations on Mars,  I would like
to respond to your statement.

Your question as to why a civilization would build a construct that can be
seen from above and not from the ground is valid.  The question is especially
valid when the artifact appears to serve no purpose, and the civilization
does not appear to have had aircraft.

I have to agree with you that such actions do not seem reasonable.  The fact
is, however, that Earth provides numerous examples of this type of artifact.
Not all of the artifacts are near evidence of cities either.  A few examples
that come to mind are:  The features on the Nasca Plains,  The mounds shaped
in the form of animals (if viewed from the air) in England, and similar
features in the American Southwest (Arizona and the Mojavi Desert in
California).

I am not prepared to argue the stupidity of such behavior or if it was a waste
of resources to make the monuments.  A review of your Macro Economics textbook
might suggest that there are valid, non-technical, reasons for utilizing a
workforce in such a way.

This is not intended to defend the position that the features on Mars are
evidence of an ancient civilization.  These comments are only intended to
point out that it is not always possible to predict exactly what a
civilization will construe to be reasonable actions.

Gordon






e



--
===============================================================================
| Gordon Bruce; DataComm Consultant |  The opinions expressed here are mine   |
| [e-mail]             |  and are not necessarily the opinions   |
| stanton!bruce                     |  of my clients or employers.            |
===============================================================================
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From: [e-mail] (Michael Corbin)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Eduard "billy" Meier - Photo Evidence
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 8 Mar 92 19:00:00 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (newsout1.26)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - <ParaNet(sm) , Arvada CO
Lines: 108


 * Forwarded from "ParaNet General Echo"
 * Originally from Vladimir Godic
 * Originally dated 03-07-92 13:40


In 1981, the late Frank Gillespie wrote the following review of "UFO
....Contact from the Pleiades."  In light of recent Paranet discussions on this
very outdated subject, I will repeat Frank's article here.  Before doing so, I
would like to point out that Frank Gillespie was a scientist with the
Commonwealth Scientific & Industrial Research Organisation (CSIRO).  Being a
photographic expert, Frank was, for many years, a scientific advisor to
Australian UFO groups.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Part 1:

             "UFO...CONTACT FROM THE PLEIADES Vol.1"

The presentation of this UFO contactee story is quite different from any of its
predecessors.  The backbone of the book is a series of twenty two flying saucer
photographs, supported by a rather sketchy and disjointed text; and padded out
by personal photographs, snatches of cosmonaut and other philosophy, and seven
pages invoking tenuous connections with the pyramids, the parthenon, and
verious other ancient structures.  There are also some visually impressive
computer generated images, for which the interpretations may or may not have
been quoted correctly.  The credit for the preparation and publishing of this
book is shared by a team of nine indivduals and four companies; but all of the
flying saucer photographs are attributed to Eduard "Billy" Meier, a
farmer/caretaker of Inwel, Switzerland.

A connected series of photographs such as this can be likened to a chain, where
the failure of a single link distrupts the entire chain. Rather ironically, the
very first photograph in the book is the one in which evidence of fakery can be
most clearly seen, so that detectable discrepancies in later photographs only
go to confirm that a superimposition technique such as front projection has
undoubtedly been used.  The first picture, which is reproduced again precisely
half way through the book, is one of a series supposedly taken just before
sunset on 29th March, 1976.  It has the appearance of a scene largely in
shadow, but lit from the right by a reddish sun, which also flashes brightly
off the upper section of the spacecraft. However, this apparent illumination
terminates abruptly along the line of the distant hilltops, along with the
transition from pale blue sky to brownish hills.  Close examination reveals
that this appearance of sunshine has been achieved by displacing the magenta
and yellow colour image laterally from the cyan and black, thus generating an
orange flash on one side of the tree limbs.  The effect of this technique is
apparent only where the background is lacking in magenta and yellow - in this
case, the sky.  The question arises, was this the result of poor printing
technique, or was it deliberately done, either before or after the picture
reached the hands of the printers?  Consider the evidence; that the only
pictures in the book which have this defect to any serious extent are the ones
in this particular series, that the extent of the defect is far beyond what any
reputable colour reprodcer would allow, and that the effect of the
misregistration is so pronounced that it could not possibly have been missed.
As to who was responsible for the fakery, the buck appears to stop at the
colour reproducers, because in the second printing of this picture, the colour
displacement has been done in the wrong direction, and the trees appear to be
sunlit from the left. The printers would have used the blocks as received, on
equipment which automatically preserved the registration of the four colours.

It would be tedious to go through all the individual discrepancies in the
various pictures, particularly as the book pages are not numbered for
reference.  Suffice to say that the faults to look for come into the following
categories:

1. Lighting direction discrepancies between the background and the spacecraft.
2. Overcast sky and flatly lit ground scene, with a brightly lit craft.
3. Correct exposure for the craft, when the scene is badly underexposed.
4. Craft in better focus than any part of the scene.
5. Lack of ground shadow cast by the craft.
6. Inconsistent lighting between shots supposedly taken at the same time.
7. No signs of life in any of the UFO pictures.

The first five of these faults all indicate that a superimposition technique
has been used, probably involving models for the spacecraft. Confirmatory
evidence comes from the last saucer picture in the book, where the painted on
"portholes" are fairly obvious.  The most likely technique used for the
superimposition is front projection, which is widely used in the United States
today. With this technique, you can have your wedding day photographs taken in
front of the Salt Lake Tabernacle, even though the ceremony took place in a
Brooklyn registry office.  The technique is virtually undetectable, except when
mistakes are made, such as those listed above.

The text of this book is also not immune to criticism.  The claim is made, for
instance, that the focussing of the camera used for all the saucer stills was
jammed just short of infinity.  This is just the setting which would be used to
obtain maximum clarity in a landscape photograph, so it becomes a rather hollow
excuse for the poor focussing evident in many of the pictures.  The captions of
the two micrograph pictures are nonsensical - all metals have adequate
conductivity for scanning electron microscopy, but the specimen in the picture
exhibits signs of poor conductivity, suggesting an improperly prepared
nonmetallic object; and the machining in the other micrograph is not only very
poor, but it appears to have been done by an unsuitable technique.  It is
repeatedly claimed that an abundance of pictures are available for publication,
which makes it hard to understand why five of them have been printed twice, for
no good reason.  Looking at the drawings of the various craft, one would expect
from their clarity and detail, that they would be accurate. This appears to be
so for type 5 craft, and for type 2 other than the one in the movie sequence,
but it is definitely not the case for the remaining variations.  The claims
made for the movie segment deserve some attention.  Ask any film producer, and
he will tell you that these are all standard effects with a tripod mounted
camera, involving only simply stop/start and time-lapse techniques.

Continuing in part 2....

--
Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
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From: [e-mail] (Michael Corbin)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Eduard 'billy' Meier
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 8 Mar 92 19:00:00 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (newsout1.26)
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 * Forwarded from "ParaNet General Echo"
 * Originally from Vladimir Godic
 * Originally dated 03-07-92 14:14

Part 2:

The scientific investigation is one aspect of this book which worries me. Apart
from acknowledging the part played by De Anza Systems Inc., the book does not
name any of the persons involved; but one would expect an honourable scientist
to revoke any abuse of his professional status.  I can only conclude,
therefore, that some, at least, of my colleagues, have allowed themselves to be
so blinded by state-of-the-art technology, that they cannot see how easy it is
to cheat such a system.  Relying entirely on a computer for UFO photograph
analysis is like staking your reputation on the computer beating all comers at
chess.  Anyone knowing or guessing the factors on which the computer
calculations are based, can devise techniques to force incorrect analyses from
the comptuer.  For example, distance and size assessment are both based on edge
sharpness data, which can be readily manipulated to give any desired result
during a superimposition.  Regarding the metal, biological and mineral
specimens left by the cosmonauts, there is a technique called isotope analysis
now available, which will determine with absolute certainty whether a material
is of extraterrestrial origin.  There are many places where it can be carried
out; and some of these must be known to the American scientists allegedly
involved in the investigation. Significantly, no mention is made of this
technique being used.

This scientific aspect is so important, that, at the risk of boring layman
readers, I will deal specifically with some of the misconceptions which appear
in the book.  Electron microscopy always sounds impressive, but it would be
hard to conceive of a greater exercise in futility than using it on colour film
images.  A scanning microscope would show only the topography of the emulsion
surface, wheras in a transmission microscope, the dye materials of the image
would be indistinguishable from the gelatin medium.  Three dimensionality can
be detected with reasonable certainty from an original photograph, taken under
known conditions.  However, UFOs have frequently been assessed as three
dimensional from analysis of copied photographs, which are, by definition,
photographs of photographs having only two effective dimensions. Alternatively,
skillful artists routinely transfer attributes of three dimensionality to
canvas, sufficient to fool any computer analysis. In colour film, the image is
composed of three dyes, each of which is visible to the eye. There is no other
material present with which any invisible image could be formed; and to suggest
that some mysterious radiation produced such an image is surely ridiculous.
Similarly, it is foolhardy to suggest that any wire or thread supporting a
model must show up with computer enhancement.  A 300mm diameter foam plastic
model, for instance, could easily be supported by a single fibre from a nylon
stocking, which, at 2 metres from the camera, would be well beyond the
resolving power of its optical system.  A general characteristic of film grains
is that they overlap - it is only thus that a true black image can be built up.
 This is especially true of colour film, where each of the tree emulsions has
to be capable of developing as a solid colour.  Another characteristic of film
grains is that once they are developed, there is no way to tell how or when
they were exposed; hence film grain analysis gives no information about the use
of multiple exposures, or of most darkroom techniques.  In conclusion computer
techniques have their place, but they cannot substitute entirely for careful
visual examination of any UFO photograph.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

The above article which appeared in the `UFO Research Australia Newsletter,"
Vol.2 No.1, Jan-Feb 1981, is one of many written at the time.  Other
individuals and organisations wrote expose as well, so the above is not an
isolated critique. I reproduce Frank Gillespie's article here in an attempt to
show those who have only been subjected to pro Billy Meier arguments that
scientific evaluations revealed a very different story.

I think it a shame that time is wasted on cut and dried hoaxes when there is so
much that is presently unexplained and far more deserving of our time and
attention.

In closing, I would like to state that the above ends my participation in the
Billy Meier farce.  I will not enter into any further discussions, I value my
time far too much to debate proven hoaxes.

--
Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]
Path: ns-mx!uunet!zephyr.ens.tek.com!uw-beaver!pullen
From: [e-mail] (Walter D. Pullen)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,talk.religion.newage
Subject: Q&A on Extraterrestrial Abductions and Visitations
Summary: Alien abductions, integrating fear, and how to be visited.
Keywords: Bashar
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 9 Mar 92 12:24:51 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: University of Washington Computer Science
Lines: 472
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4826 talk.religion.newage:9697


     Extraterrestrial abductions and visitations are an important
topic in the UFO fields, mainly due to the many people that have had
personal experiences of this sort. There are two main types of
contactees: those that are unconsciously "abducted", often to them in
a frightening experience, and those that are consciously visited by
friendly aliens. Many of us would like to avoid the first kind, or
desire and would enjoy having the second type. Here is a question and
answer session on the topic of extraterrestrial visitations, excerpted
from the book "Bashar: Blueprint for Change - A Message from Our
Future", by Darryl Anka and Luana Ewing. The book is "channeled" from
an extraterrestrial by the name of Bashar, although again, don't let
that label add to or take away from the contents of the messages.

     This article is divided into three related parts: First discussed
is the abduction phenomena, from the point of view of the abductees
and how they experience it. Next is a section on fear in general and
how to overcome it. Finally, have you ever wanted to meet friendly
extraterrestrials yourself in an open setting; ever wonder why they
choose certain people to meet over others? The final section describes
these types of encounters and how they can occur. I personally found
these contents very enlightening, explaining many things, and I
recommend it and the book in general to anyone curious about these
subjects.


---  Abductions  ---

Q:   I've just finished reading _Intruders_, by Bud Hopkins, which I
     believe you know of - a book which talks about the encounters that
     several people on our planet have had with extraterrestrials -
     abductions, where they have been taken aboard the craft -

     At this time we would suggest a replacement for that term. Rather
than abductions, perhaps... "detainments."

Q:   Detainments, okay. Anyway, they underwent examinations of various
     kinds. The account in the book indicated that there was some pain and
     discomfort and a lot of fear created on the part of the detainees.

     Yes. Generally the fear is what creates the pain and discomfort.
There usually is no real inherent pain or discomfort in the
interaction - except what is caused by the fear. Part of the reasons
for those interactions is to release those fears, so there will no
longer be any form of fear, pain or discomfort in your lives. That is
one of the reasons for those interactions. They are all being made by
agreement, even though your conscious minds may not remember those
agreements.

Q:   Some of the pain has been physical pain, in that there have been
     probes placed up into the nostrils.

     Yes. Some of this is physical, and some of it is not. Some of it
is such a strong telepathic idea that you think it is physical.

Q:   Knowing that these people have agreed to have these interactions, then
     since they have agreed, why are they still creating the fear? And then
     corollary to that: one of the detainees said, "We wouldn't really mind
     it if the aliens would just come out and say, 'Hey, would you be
     willing to do this?' And we would be. They don't have to abduct us."
     ... That made a lot of sense to me.

     Yes. Understand, of course, that the agreements are usually
unconscious; that is part of the reason. Many times, as long as the
agreements are unconscious, an individual may consciously say, "Oh
well, wouldn't it be nice if it were to happen this way?" But when it
comes right down to it, the fear comes up anyway.

Q:   Well, if the agreements are unconscious, can they not also be done
     consciously?

     Obviously on your behalf, not yet. Otherwise there would be no
fear - for fear is an indication that it cannot yet be done
consciously.

Q:   Yet there is this request on the part of at least one of the
     interviewed detainees that the aliens come out and make a conscious
     request.

Yes, but that is after the fact.

Q:   True. Well, that I'm also doing here is suggesting that these
     agreements start being made on a conscious level - and perhaps you can
     be our ambassador -

     They are doing so more and more. Do understand one very important
thing: all the individuals who have been chosen - even those who seem
to go through abject terror - are actually quite close to integrating
the last remnants of their fears. We are choosing all those who are
very close indeed to the end of having fear. So you may realize that
when you see them having that much fear, if that's an indication of a
small part of the total fear that your society has, just imagine if
someone were to be chosen who had more fears than that!
     So the individuals we are choosing *are* the ones, many times,
who are the closest to integration, the closest to conscious
recognition. And yet they still have that amount of fear.

Q:   I see. Are these individuals also helping to drain off the fears of
     the rest of us through themselves?

     Yes! They have agreed to do this for all of you. That is why they
are now sharing their experiences - so you can "vicariously" go
through their "ordeal" with them, get in touch with the fear left
within *you* and integrate it. Then the next series of interactions
can become more and more conscious.

Q:   Do you have any final comments that you'd like to communicate to him
     and to his people in the book?

     Only that we appreciate that he is doing what he agreed to do.
And he is making a difference in the ability of your entire planet to
allow your society and our respective societies to live in harmony
with each other.

---

Q:   Bashar, I've been under this dark cloud after reading a couple of
     books recently. One of them is a new book called _Communion_, by
     Whitley Strieber.

     That initial reaction is not unusual for your society. But no
need to fear. All the fear that you may experience in the idea of
those interactions basically stems form that individual experiencing
those interactions and allowing himself to release the fears that have
been planted in his life. And also, nothing has happened in those
interactions that the individual did not agree to at some point in his
life - although granted it is on an unconscious level. Everything is
done by agreement - *everything*!
     Those extraterrestrials were assisting that individual in
releasing much of that fear. Thus at the time he is very much aware of
what the purpose of that idea was. I'm not saying he has come to terms
with all of his fears, but he understands that the fear he felt was
basically from himself, not from them.
     Now, those beings have interacted with many beings on your world.
One of their primary function, per the agreements they have made with
many of you, is to assist you in releasing your fear. It may be a very
fearful process while you go through it, but you agreed to experience
it. You know that you are doing. All you need to do, if you find
yourself in that interaction, is to trust that you know what you are
doing. The more trust and love you have, the less you will feel the
interaction in a format of fear. That's all it takes.
     Remember, a higher vibratory state exposing itself to a lower
vibratory state will raise the vibration of the lower being to force
it to face many things it has not been willing to face within itself,
and that is what the being is terrified of. But that being is dealing
with it, integrating the fear and transforming it into positive
understanding. That has been one of the purposes for those
interactions, because it was understood that that being, that author,
would communicate his experiences, allowing other individuals to come
to terms with their own fears, so that by the next wave of
interactions there would be less fear to integrate.

Q:   I understand that, but my reaction was that the book might be scaring
     more people than it is uplifting.

     That's all right, because it will still allow them to face
certain ideas, to come to terms with them. And again, these things are
done with agreements, do not forget. Your entire planet on one level
is agreeing to this particular type of teaching. it doesn't have to
happen that way; it's completely up to your world as to whether or not
it will wake up or be shaken awake.

Q:   Well, I think that that book has perhaps disadvanced the progression,
     because it's sort of creating the opposite effect of, for instance,
     your teachings.

     No. I understand what you are saying, but there are many
individuals who cannot relate to the idea in any other way. Therefore,
they have been given the tools that will work best for them. True, it
isn't for everyone, but it will hit those who need it. And do not
necessarily view it is a disvalue, because then you will reinforce the
inability of certain people to absorb it. Know that it will evolve
where it needs to. It has already awakened many.

Q:   How does it serve the extraterrestrials to contact us in what appears
     to be frightening ways - at least to our conscious minds?

     Understand that different individuals in different cultures have
different methods; different cultures think and perceive in different
ways. The intention is always there to be felt for what it is, and the
Zeta's intentions can always be sensed to be loving in an overall way.
The methodology through which those intentions are expressed, however,
can and do seem alien to you. Their thought patterns are alien to
yours, and so there is that fear, that dichotomy, that often crops up
in your society when you see something that is extremely different
from you.
     It is not so much that they have an absolute desire to approach
you in specific methods that will generate fear. It is just that
because of your methods, their natural methods do in fact generate it.
They are not necessarily about to alter their entire psychological
structure to accomodate you beyond a certain point. They know you can
handle it, and they know you have agreed to learn how to handle it.
Learning to do so is one part of the agreement, a part about which
many of you are not aware.

Q:   Yes, I can see that, because there's a point in the book at which he
     says to one of them, "You have no right." And she says, "Yes we do."

     Yes. The right was granted by the agreement that was made. Many
individuals on your planet *do* wish that contact with us and other
civilizations. These Reticulum beings are primarily doing the job of
acclimatizing many individuals on your world in ways that are
buffered. Even though the individuals may experience many degrees of
fear, it is actually a far smoother transition than they would have
experienced had the alien beings simply come to them straight out
first time full blown.
     Bit by bit these individuals have been contacted over long
periods of their lives, many times from when they were children. And
bit by bit they are allowed to remember more and more of the
interaction until they get to a point where they realize there is
nothing to fear. They can handle it, and then the contact can occur
more openly and more obviously.

Q:   I thought it was very significant that every person to whom Strieber
     talked who had had a similar experience - even though some of them
     were still frightened, and didn't know if they were going crazy, or if
     it was their imagination or what - still in spite of all that, they
     felt love and affection.

     Yes. At this point in their lives. To put it simply: the aliens
are acting within their integrity to the best of their ability, but
they are not responsible for the way you have created your society to
be, and the reactions that you often have. You have made the
agreement; they are fulfilling the agreement. They are doing it in the
way that is easiest for you.
     As we have said, when you encounter those beings, for the first
time in your conscious life perhaps, you will actually get a
reflection on how powerful you are. And fear that might come from that
is merely a reaction to the belief that you cannot possible contain
that much power. And therefore, "It isn't coming from you, and so it
might destroy you." But it can't. It is an absolute reflection of you
- and that is what you are learning.


---  Overcoming Fear  ---

Q:   So how do you stop letting fear control you and take over your life?

     Know it is your friend. It is giving you a messages. "Tap, tap.
Look here! Here's a part of yourself you didn't know existed: I'm
bringing it to your attention. Isn't that wonderful? Now that you are
aware of it, you can integrate it into the rest of you and be more of
who you are. Haven't I done you a wonderful service?"
     "No?!? What do you mean you didn't want to see that part of
yourself? I thought you wanted to see everything there was to see,
experience every facet of the multidimensional existence that you are.
Do you not want to integrate it in yourself so that you can
accelerate? ... You're not sure? Well, all right. I'll hang around
until you are sure, until you allow me to deliver the message. Of
course, as long as I hang around, you might as well feed me, pay for
my meals, allow me to grow and become a live-in. I'll get stronger and
stronger and nag you constantly until you allow me to deliver my
message so I can get out of here."
     That is the only reason fear is there - because you do not allow
it to deliver the message it brings; because you attempt to reject the
message, thinking it is something not worth having.

Q:   Well, if fear is delivering a message, I don't always know what the
     message is. I would rather have the message than the fear.

     Well now, I am not saying this is something that carries any more
power than you do, but many of you have put much stock in the belief
of habits. And so because you believe things can happen in your lives
habitually, as second nature, without even knowing you are doing it,
then many times you do not even realize you are rejecting the message
coming from the fear, and doing so before you can even think about it.
You do not pay attention quickly enough.
     Therefore, it is a matter of allowing yourselves to know that the
messages are there, that you *can* hear them. Even allowing yourselves
to be fascinated by the fact that the fear might be beinging a message
can curtail or dull the negativity - just because you might be
fascinated enough to say, "Well, what is the message?" The minute you
become curious, no more fear.

Q:   Could you give me an example of what kind of message a fear would
     bring?

     Well, one such as this: you are walking down one of your streets.
Someone walks up to you, and all of the sudden you are fearful. "What
do they want? What do they want? Why are they bothering me? I do not
want to be accosted. Are they going to rob me? What do they want?"
     "Excuse me, do you have the time?" "Oh! Well, yes." "Thank you
very much. Good bye." "Why was I so fearful? Why was I so
automatically fearful without knowing anything at all?" Assumptions
and structures that you build. Habits that you believe in. The message
is there that lets you know that reaction shows you the beliefs you
have within you, structures within you that you may not prefer.
     That may be the message. If you do not prefer to live that way,
then you have now allowed yourselves to let the fear show you these
beliefs are within you. Now you can change them. That is one way you
can allow fear to deliver a message.

Q:   Yes. Of course, there is a situation where a guy does have a gun under
     his coat -

Yes. So?

Q:   Fear is really telling you to get out of there!

     All right now, once again: understand that the situation can
occur that way, but it also does not have to. The idea of knowing your
reality, and knowing it without fear, can give you the cognition that
the event is there. But you know it will not affect you in any
negative way. Cognition of a situation does not have to create fear.

Q:   True. But what I'm saying is that sometimes the sensation of a fear
     comes up, and I go, "Well, look at that. That's neat." And I find that
     I'm able not to feel fearful because I'm in the moment, and I know
     that there will be a positive outcome. So, if that does occur, then
     what is the message? Or have I just made the message unnecessary?

     Yes. The minute you begin to become curious, you have gotten the
message. The idea of many of the fears is to simply spur your
curiosity to begin exploring that facet of yourself. That is all. It
is a gentle reminder. And the more you are willing to explore, the
gentler the nudges become, until you just do not experience that fear
anymore. Again, it is simply the idea of little bits and pieces of
beliefs and remnants. That is all. Little twinges of old habits. But
as soon as you acknowledge that it is something worth exploring... no
more habit.

Q:   So in the case where the guy does come up and he's got a gun, and his
     initial intention was to rob you or whatever, you will experience the
     fear and say, "Okay, I can just view this as a positive thing." That
     will flip us into a dimension where we co-create -

     It can happen that way. It can also allow you to not come
anywhere near that individual, and vice versa.

Q:   Well, I'm saying he's two feet in front of me -

     But understand: you are missing the point. Not that it cannot
switch in the middle of the idea. but generally speaking, you do not
usually need to have that particular type of scenario to know that if
you create your reality in a certain vibration, you will never meet
that robber at all. He will take one street, and you will take
another. You will not have to come down the the idea of the
confrontation at all... although that may be one way individuals may
find an exciting way to come to terms with what they believe in the
moment. It is certantly valid if they create it, and it has happened.

Q:   Well, it sounds like what you're saying is that in the case of my
     going down a street other than the one he goes down, I've already
     dealt with my fears.

     Yes, that is the point. If you are using the situation to allow
the fear to be there in order to deal with it, then yes, you can
transform the situation right in the middle. Therefore recognize that
if that is what you are willing to do, then the individual you have
attracted is someone willing to change with you. And so in a sense it
has already been changed.


---  Initiating Visitations  ---

Q:   In contacting ships, in some contexts people have gone aboard and gone
     on flights, hanging out physically with ETs. In what context can I do
     that?

     In the context of the fullness of the agreement of your timing.
Go and do what excites you.

Q:   As I do that, and am running around the desert in search of -

Do not wait for it.

Q:   I don't. I'm wondering if there is some shift necessary, some timing?
     Or is there some agreement that can be made? Can I just check on when
     is the next available flight - ?

     You have already made the agreement. You will fulfill the
appropriate timing by continuing to do what represents who you are.
That is what will take you most quickly into any timed agreement: be
the person you need to be. That agreement will be met.

Q:   Is there some other way I can get an advanced glimpse of the schedule?

     Certain areas on your planet that attract you - do you physically
go there?

Q:   Not as often as I'd like. There are a couple of places -

     Bye-bye.... In other words, if that is what you are all about,
then act upon the impulse. Place yourself in the locations carrying
the highest degree of conductivity for those types of blendings.
There are many, many places around your planet that we have visited,
and visit all the time. You may simply go to where you are attracted.
But again, recognize that you do not necessarily have to go very far.
Generally speaking, however, it is usually more conducive to see our
ships if you are not in a large city.
     What we are saying is that we recognize many of you have ascribed
to us abilities that in many ways we do not have - in the sense of
being able to just pop in, pop out, anywhere any time. We also follow
the natural lines of flow of timing and the electromagnetic field of
the universal reality. And therefore sometimes even when you might be
ready, the timing on our side does not match the fullness of the
agreement.

Q:   Is there some way to find out what that timing would be that does work
     in conjunction with your agreement?

     Sometimes in meditation it can come to you. But always in the
exploration of the things that mean the most to you in physical life,
and in the action on those endeavors you will have whatever type of
recognition of the timing you need. But do realize that usually you
think you're ready when you really are not. Trust that when you really
are ready, nothing in the universe will stop it.

Q:   Great. Thank you.
     Bashar, I wouldn't mind being abducted and temporarily detained on a
     space ship. What do you think would be the best way to do that?

     By not giving it a second thought. By going about your business,
living your life to the fullest, and being the person you really
desire to be. By not *needing* to do that. Many of the ideas of these
so-called interactions - it is not that they cannot occur, but only
that many times they will not occur *because* you are requesting it in
the context that you will not be complete unless it happens. And
therefore we will not show up and reinforce your sense of
incompleteness.
     Not that we will guarantee anything, for the timing is always
going to be dependent upon the individual, but if you still have a
penchant for a contact, simply be somewhere alone. Then your chances
are greatly increased. But do also understand: all of you have been
aboard ships in your dream states. All of you.

Q:   Yeah, I remember dreams of doing that, but I want to do it in my
     physical body.

     As soon as the dream state and the physical body are not
considered different, you will be. Do not need it to be different; do
not need it out of desperation. Live your life; all things are
happening according to perfect timing, and according to agreements
that serve the best of all concerned. And relax. Many times - and this
may surprise some of you who are so eager to meet us, as you say, in
the flesh - we have heard many of you express the same desire: "I'm
really ready; I'm ready to meet you now - really. I'll meet you down
at the corner in, oh, half an hour."
     We are very aware of all the levels of your consciousness that
are involved in the need to focus on us, and to focus on yourselves.
But when you have expressed the idea of your readiness, finding
yourselves in a remote location, and finding the energy changing and
you are very aware of exactly what is happening - that we are coming
closer to you in vibration, and are in many ways about to literally
appear to you - boy, do you run! When it comes right down to it, many
times you are not as ready as you think you are. "Not yet; not yet,"
you say.... We will know when you are ready.

Q:   I don't think I'd run, though.

     I know you don't think you'd run. And in a sense many of you may
not. But also understand this: one of the reasons for the timing of
everything is because, as we pointed out earlier, being exposed to a
higher vibration will often bring things up with you that you are not
ready to face about yourselves. And in fact, MOST OF THE RUNNING YOU
DO IS NOT FROM US. IT IS FROM YOURSELVES!
     We will trust the timing that is best for all concerned. Do not
give it a second thought; just live your lives. And as we have said,
you can open the lines of communication in loving ways with your
government, and allow them to share the information of our existence.
Make it not such a surprising thing that your civilization and ours
should interact, thus laying the groundwork for that interaction.

---

-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
|     Walter D. "Cruiser1" Pullen     |     [e-mail]     |
-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
|   "Who am I, What am I?  As I am, I am not.  But as we are, I AM.  And to   |
-   you my creation, My Perfect Love is your Perfect Freedom. And I will be   -
|   with you forever and ever, until the End, and then forever more." - GOD   |
-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!uknet!warwick!covpoly!cck.coventry.ac.uk!csh051
From: [e-mail] (Norman)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal,sci.space,sci.skeptic
Subject: Mars Face / General Info.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 9 Mar 92 10:51:26 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News Owner)
Organization: Coventry Polytechnic, Coventry, UK
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Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4827 alt.paranormal:4595 sci.space:27566 sci.skeptic:21667
Nntp-Posting-Host: cc_sysk

I have been reading this debate about the Mars  face  with  interest.   I
found  this  reference  to  a bulletin board in a book about UFO research.
The trouble is I have no phone  at  the  moment.   Anyhow  being  a  poor
student I don't think I can afford the cost of calls to America from England.

The reference is as follows:
Computer UFO Network / UFO Reports & Information Service.
Connect at: 300 or 1200 BAUD,
EIGHT DATA BITS,
NO PARITY,
ONE STOP BIT:
USA [phone],
FROM 20:00 TO 08:00 HRS WST.

I  thought  that it might be of interest to someone a bit more local.  If
it is of any interest could the kind hack please send me any of the  good
bits?

Thanks.
><<<<<<N>>>>>><<<<<<N>>>>>><<<<<<N>>>>>><<<<<<N>>>>>><<<<<<N>>>>>><<<<<<N>>>>>><
================================================================================
ALIAS: Norman | JANET: [e-mail] | Emporium Of The Curious & Exotic.
EMAIL: [e-mail] | No Job Too Small.
================================================================================
><<<<<<N>>>>>><<<<<<N>>>>>><<<<<<N>>>>>><<<<<<N>>>>>><<<<<<N>>>>>><<<<<<N>>>>>><
Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!uknet!warwick!covpoly!cck.coventry.ac.uk!csh051
From: [e-mail] (Norman)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal,sci.skeptic,sci.space
Subject: Mars Face / General Info.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 9 Mar 92 10:56:09 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News Owner)
Organization: Coventry Polytechnic, Coventry, UK
Lines: 24
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4828 alt.paranormal:4596 sci.skeptic:21668 sci.space:27567
Nntp-Posting-Host: cc_sysk

I have been reading this debate about the Mars  face  with  interest.   I
found  this  reference  to  a bulletin board in a book about UFO research.
The trouble is I have no phone  at  the  moment.   Anyhow  being  a  poor
student I don't think I can afford the cost of calls to America from England.

The reference is as follows:
Computer UFO Network / UFO Reports & Information Service.
Connect at: 300 or 1200 BAUD,
EIGHT DATA BITS,
NO PARITY,
ONE STOP BIT:
USA [phone],
FROM 20:00 TO 08:00 HRS WST.

I  thought  that it might be of interest to someone a bit more local.  If
it is of any interest could the kind hack please send me any of the  good
bits?

Thanks.
--
================================================================================
ALIAS: Norman | JANET: [e-mail] | Emporium Of The Curious & Exotic.
EMAIL: [e-mail] | No Job Too Small.
================================================================================
Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!ub4b!info-sparc1.info.ucl.ac.be![e-mail]
From: [e-mail] (Christophe Meessen)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: mars Pyramids - what do You think about it?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 9 Mar 92 14:11:19 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (News Administrator)
Organization: Universite Catholique de Louvain (Belgium)
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Nntp-Posting-Host: 130.104.58.33

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Gordon Bruce) writes:
>
> In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Scott D. Young) writes:
> >
> >    A question...if they are left by some long-dead civilization, why is it
> >    we only found a face, and not football stadiums or cities or nuclear
> >    reactors?  I mean, if you are going to build something, and you can only
> >    build one "something" of such huge size (time/effort constraints, whatever)
> >    how many people would build a face that only hypothetical "aliens" (as in
> >    non-Martians) could see? ...
>
..
>
> I have to agree with you that such actions do not seem reasonable.  The fact
> is, however, that Earth provides numerous examples of this type of artifact.
> Not all of the artifacts are near evidence of cities either.  A few examples
> that come to mind are:  The features on the Nasca Plains,  The mounds shaped
> in the form of animals (if viewed from the air) in England, and similar
> features in the American Southwest (Arizona and the Mojavi Desert in
> California).
>
..
> This is not intended to defend the position that the features on Mars are
> evidence of an ancient civilization.  These comments are only intended to
> point out that it is not always possible to predict exactly what a
> civilization will construe to be reasonable actions.
>

Good point.

The question "Why would 'they' do that ?" is the wrong question.

None of us can aswer this question.

A good question is "Is this an artifact or natural ?".

We can find an answer to this question.

The answer to the first question implies self projection and using or own
context and knowledge. This is pure speculation and very hazardous.

If people could just ask good questions they could easely find the good
answers.

Chris.
Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!uknet!icdoc!inmos!penguin!pauls
From: [e-mail] (Paul Sidnell)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Should there be less hostility towards new ideas and theories?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 9 Mar 92 11:06:44 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: pauls@penguin (King Henry VIII)
Organization: INMOS Limited, Bristol, UK
Lines: 55

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Kirk Marcroft) writes:
|> In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Tarl
|> Neustaedter) writes:
|> >
|> >There is a reason for this hostility. The random theories presented are
|> >frequently supplied by someone who doesn't know what he is talking about,
|> >and the hostile person will sometimes know more than a little about the
|> >subject being discussed. It can be very frustrating to deal with someone
|> >who claims to be able to invalidate centuries of work with a grandiose idea,
|> >and hasn't bothered to read as much as an elementary text in the subject
|> >being discussed.
|> >

<Expansion of the above deleted...>

|> As for radical idea's here's one that will likely choke most of you hard core
|> dogma types(as above). This is part of a theory that I hope to publish one
|> day. The basic idea involves extending the periodic table in to the 4th
|> demension. Why?. It would explain why matter is unstable at the top of the
|> periodic table as it stands now.
|>
|> Wookie
|>
|> P.S. It's people like you that made the dark ages popular and tried to stop
|> some one like  Neuton!
                  ^^^^^^^

I looked on the keyboard and found that 'w' is nowhere hear 'u'. I think you
have just demonstrated Mr Neustaedters' point rather well.

As for comparative ego magnitudes:

Tarl Neustaedter: Annoyed by continual parading of ignorance of the fields
                  in question and unwillingness to give an experts work the
                  courtesy of the slightest attention.

Kirk Marcroft:    Re-defining the physics of matter in his lunch time and
                  cannot spell Newton.


The conservative nature of the "Scientific Method" is there to protect us from
lunatics, fraudsters and the misguided. Have we learned nothing from the cold
fusion debacle ? They may be right, they may be wrong but only solid verified
experimental evidence will tip the scales. Hype, posturing and blind faith have
no place in the science books of the next century. History ? perhaps.

Good luck with the periodic table. Let me know when you have isolated a few
grams of pan-dimensional Marcroftium, or would you consider that just a little
too egotistical :-)



Paul Sidnell, Software Group,      | Phone [phone]     |    Iceberg ?
INMOS Ltd. 1000 Aztec West,        | UK: [e-mail] |  What iceberg ?
Almondsbury, Bristol, BS12 4SQ, UK | US: [e-mail]   | Oh, THAT iceberg.
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!mips!decwrl!pa.dec.com!shodha.enet.dec.com!timpson
From: [e-mail] (Steve Timpson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: for all you Astroid impact dooms dayers
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 9 Mar 92 15:09:48 GMT
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Lines: 139


Article: 20808
From: [e-mail] (Len Bucuvalas x5363)
Newsgroups: sci.astro
Subject: Answers on 1992CS
Date: 5 Mar 92 22:17:01 GMT
Sender: [e-mail]

In all fairness .... here are 2 answers from what seems to be
intelligent and respected professionals in the industry.....I used to
live in Mass so I can tell you that MIT's requirements for researchers
are MOST stringent!

Len

----- Begin Included Message -----

>From [e-mail] Wed Mar  4 06:46:12 1992
Date: Wed, 04 Mar 92 09:47:09 -0500

Rumors of an imminent impact have no basis.  Rick Binzel certainly
does not know of any likely asteroid impacts in the next few years,
and that is one of his major studies.  In fact, he just helped write a
paper studying the likelihood of any such impact over some large
stretch of time (100 years? I'm not sure).  There are no asteroids
currently known which are likely to impact the earth in the forseeable
future.  The paper also has a proposal for a national policy for
searching for asteroids on an impact course.  I haven't read the
report, but from what I recall from his talks, he expects that it
would take nearly a century to identify most of the asteroids which
have any possibility of approaching the earth, if we had a systematic
search program underway.  Another conclusion I recall is that the
likelihood of any individual being killed by an asteroid/meteor is
much lower than many other risks we take for granted.  While a major
meteor strike would kill many people, they happen extremely rarely, so
the probability of you being killed by one is very very small.  As
Rick puts it, he's not losing any sleep over it.  It is simply
something we should start looking into; sometime in the future, maybe
a hundred years, maybe a thousand, there will be a major impact, but
perhaps by that time we can predict it and even do something about it.

In the meantime, put your fears to rest.  There is no evidence of a
major impact imminent.  The chance of a major impact happening in your
lifetime, or even your grandchildren's lifetime, are extremely low,
and we cannot predict asteroid orbits accurately enough that far in
the future even for those asteroids for which we have "good" orbits.
These rumors of an imminent impact sound very much like typical
end-of-the-world or government-conspiracy rumors.  Last year someone
claimed there would be a devastating earthquake in Missouri, and lots
of people got concerned in spite of geologists statements that there
was no evidence for an imminent earthquake.  The earthquake did not
happen on the claimed date, and people have forgotten about it.  I
expect the same thing to happen to this rumor.

                    Steve McDonald
                    Earth, Atmospheric & Planetary Science
                    Massachusetts Institute of Technology
                    [e-mail]

>From [e-mail] Wed Mar  4 01:43:42 1992
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 92 23:39:48 HST
From: [e-mail] (Dave Tholen)
Subject: Re: Asteroid CS1992
Newsgroups: sci.astro
Organization: Institute for Astronomy, Hawaii

There is no asteroid designated CS1992.  This isn't even a proper
asteroid designation.  If "some circles" are using this designation,
and if it is an unusual object in any way, then it would have been
reported to the Minor Planet Center and received a real designation by
now.  1992 CS is a real designation, but if it were unusual, I would
have heard about it by now.

Regarding the destruction of an asteroid using a nuclear warhead,
there is ample scientific explanation.  It is well known that
asteroids have collided with the Earth in the past, and will continue
to do so as long as there is a supply (the main belt) and a mechanism
for putting them into Earth crossing orbits (perturbations by
Jupiter).  A collision with a sufficiently large asteroid could cause
widespread devastation, something that most people would like to
avoid.  Such a catastrophe could be avoided by either diverting the
asteroid or destroying it.  Nuclear warheads offer sufficient energy
to do the job.

I know of no connection to a tract of land in Australia.

Jost Jahn posts the periodic Earth-crossing asteroid ephemerides, but
the answer was from someone at MIT (and probably hasn't made it across
the Usenet yet, so I'll include it here).

================================================================
From: [e-mail] (Steve McDonald)
Newsgroups: sci.astro
Subject: Re: Asteroid CS1992
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 92 17:38:46 EST
Sender: [e-mail] (News system)
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology

In article <[e-mail]>
[e-mail] (Len Bucuvalas x5363) writes:

>We are looking for exact scientific information regarding an
>asteroid, that has in some circles been named CS1992.
>
>In particular, we wish to know its current position, its orbital elements,
>and future orbital path, including any possible interceptions with the
>orbit of the Earth and any possible 'near' misses in the next 20 years.
>
> [lots of stuff about anti-meteorite icbm's and rumored 1000-occupancy
>  survival shelters in Australia]

CS1992 doesn't sound right; perhaps you mean 1992CS, which is a proper
form for an asteroid designation?  CS1992 is not a proper form.

I have not seen any IAU circular on anything designated 1992CS (or
CS1992). Nor has Rick Binzel, a major asteroid specialist, heard of
it.  But if there is an asteroid designated 1992CS, we can immediately
infer several things about it.  First, it was only discovered in the
first half of February this year.  Newly discovered asteroids follow a
very specific naming sequence; 1992 is the year of discovery, C means
first 15 days of February, and S means it was discovered after 1992CR.
 Next, we can immediately infer that we know very little about it.  It
has only been under observation for a little over two weeks.  You can
get a preliminary orbit calculation from three observations, but it
takes much more than that to be able to confidently recover it a year
later.  And it takes many years of observations before the orbit is
refined enough to list it with the asteroids with confidently known
orbits (at which time it gets a permanent number and a name).  So
predicting earth approaches even just a year or two from now with only
two weeks of observations is ridiculous. The error bars are absolutely
huge.  It is impossible to blame any of the things this author
mentions on such a recently discovered asteroid.

                    Steve McDonald
                    Earth, Atmospheric & Planetary Sciences
                    Massachusetts Institute of Technology
                    [e-mail]

----- End Included Message -----
Path: ns-mx!uunet!usc!rpi!acm.rpi.edu!strider
From: [e-mail] (Greg Moore)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Mars-face with Pyramids
Message-ID: <yz![e-mail]>
Date: 9 Mar 92 18:49:49 GMT
References: <behse.697686309@tubue> <[e-mail]> <2#[e-mail]>
Organization: The Voice of Fate
Lines: 60
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4832 sci.space:27591 sci.skeptic:21683
Nntp-Posting-Host: acm.acm.rpi.edu

In article <2#[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Enrique Morales) writes:
>[e-mail] writes:
>
>>> MD#P(QP >F.*UERD"@*,$5$\C;OW:YR>2/\_Y_*H+R)GGADCF= @(* _>SZU4
>>> M9)YAC;@,>>>M9*Z2;.[>X\]QN;=\S9P<=O:N2O9[(ZM<QKEIF<');/S>M-\1
>>> MK))IJ0QQM)=2-E@.P'K^E1:%ITS1 J@CE4;0W4Y]*Q?#G@Z\E\7/-J,3)';N
>>> M9#@<-]*].U3Q%::;X>:YM6#2 [0IZY/3(KFK5+J]LA=W;2%W;(!X'-;=G++;
>>> MVS_9X@JJN=N>I_S_ )ZURNHZ1+KNM,FI+(JJ 4*=Q7>Z)HYM[55C 6"-?E7'
>>> M.?>J&I2?;Y#$LCA87&5!Y)JLUEJ%K))(A00G!4 <CUYJ_P#O4(ZL0-S*W.<C
>>> M_/\ G%6M)NEN8F\HF4*>O8'TKIK?S'16P64 8)%96N1$J_F9V%3NKE= N[>%
>
>>Never mind... this is about as much sense the idea of deliberate
>>faces on Mars makes anyway.
>
>You're not a believer;you're not even a skeptic.
>You're just some dumb idiot that can't even make sense out
>of the worthless two lines that you bother to post.

    You know, I vowed to stay out of this debate, but this just
pla ol' pissed me off!

    First of all, kent_f1, is right, the above makes no sense
UNLESS you know what a UUECODED file is.  Without access to the
correct knowledge or tools, it makes no sense.
    Hmm, perhaps an analogy here... the face can not be
correctly understood without the right tools and knowledge.

>your sentence is attrocious(very bad just in case you can't under
>stand ). it was with obviously most negligence you wrote this.
>Try reading that last sentence and tell me what you think.
>Although you probably think it is ok.
>    Don't criticize stuff before you know what it is.
>You piss me off, and all the ignorant f---heads out there that do
>not cosider shit before they start blabbing.
>
    Consider yourself so charged.

>Enrique
>aka juggler
>==============================================
>||  Just 'cause you don't like it           ||
>||  Don't mean it ain't no good.            ||
>||  And just 'cause you can't understand it,||
>||  Don't mean it make no sense.            ||
>||                --Suicidal Tendencies     ||
>||          (Don't bring me down)     ||
>==============================================
>
>
>P.S. If you ever come accross the suicidal tendencies _Revolution_
>album, listen to "don't bring me down."  It pertains to people
>just like you.
>


--
<------------------------------------------------------------------------->
Greg d. Moore                  |  [e-mail]
Green Mountain Software        |  "All that is gold does not glitter."
Carpe Diem                     |
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!mips!munnari.oz.au!newsroom.utas.edu.au!news
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Circles in the fields
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 9 Mar 92 23:21:46 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: University of Tasmania
Lines: 21

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail]
(Chris Rutkowski) writes:
>In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Questor Lau)
writes:
>
>
>>       It has been suggested once or twice that these circles that we are
>>witnessing were at one time made by ETs
>>                                               BECAUSE
>>                                                               it was their
intention to gradually allow those who could not
>>accept the presence of aliens to at least begin to entertain the
>>possibility of otherworld intelligence.
>

If they *really* wanted to alert us earthlings to their presence,
why don't they just buzz around in spaceships with neon lights and use
megaphones and yell "We are aliens from another planet.  We really
do exist!"????

=== CAPTAIN MARVEL JONES ===
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!rpi!batcomputer!cornell!uw-beaver!fluke!emery
From: [e-mail] (John Emery)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.pagan,alt.paranormal,talk.religion.newage
Subject: Re: Creating Peace On Earth by 2000 !
Keywords: Peace Clock
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 10 Mar 92 00:47:08 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: John Fluke Mfg. Co., Inc., Everett, WA
Lines: 29
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4834 alt.pagan:13393 alt.paranormal:4600 talk.religion.newage:9703


>                 -----  PEACE IN OUR LIFETIME -----
>       <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<  PEACE CLOCK  >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>                 ------   A WORLDWIDE EVENT  ------
>
>STARTING NOW: Wherever you are, perform a silent meditation for world
>              peace EVERY DAY AT NOON FOR ONE FULL MINUTE.
>THE GOAL:     To have EVERY PERSON ON EARTH performing this event by the
>              year 2000.

A thought concerning world peace.  How can nations get along with one
another when individuals can't?  People seem to have the hardest time
getting along with people in their own household, own workers, etc.

Before world peace is even possible, should not the issue of lack of
peace in the individual be addressed?  Lack of peace stems in the
heart of individuals and manifests to those around.  The introspective
question I see at hand is for the individual: how do I find peace?

Amongst the waring that goes on in my soul, I have found where my source
of peace comes from.  I would invite one to investigate Romans 5:1 and
Ephesians 2:14 in the Holy Bible.

May peace be upon all who read this.  Remember, there is one who loves
you and hold peace out in His hand.

God bless,

John Emery
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!spool.mu.edu!olivea!decwrl!netcomsv!mork!payner
From: [e-mail] (Rich Payne)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Q&A on Extraterrestrial Abductions and Visitations
Keywords: Bashar
Message-ID: <ba1h=[e-mail]>
Date: 9 Mar 92 18:11:57 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)
Lines: 108

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Walter D. Pullen) writes:

Just some comments/questions on the text posted by Walter D. Pullen,
not necessarily directed to him.

>     Extraterrestrial abductions and visitations are an important
>topic in the UFO fields, mainly due to the many people that have had
>personal experiences of this sort. There are two main types of
>contactees: those that are unconsciously "abducted", often to them in
>a frightening experience, and those that are consciously visited by
>friendly aliens. Many of us would like to avoid the first kind, or
>desire and would enjoy having the second type. Here is a question and
>answer session on the topic of extraterrestrial visitations, excerpted
>from the book "Bashar: Blueprint for Change - A Message from Our
>Future", by Darryl Anka and Luana Ewing. The book is "channeled" from
>an extraterrestrial by the name of Bashar, although again, don't let

If this is the same Bashar as in the "Peace 2000" posts, it would
explain a lot.

>that label add to or take away from the contents of the messages.
>
>     This article is divided into three related parts: First discussed
>is the abduction phenomena, from the point of view of the abductees

[stuff omitted]

>---  Abductions  ---
>
>Q:   I've just finished reading _Intruders_, by Bud Hopkins, which I
>     believe you know of - a book which talks about the encounters that
>     several people on our planet have had with extraterrestrials -
>     abductions, where they have been taken aboard the craft -
>
>     At this time we would suggest a replacement for that term. Rather
>than abductions, perhaps... "detainments."

This is incorrect. To detain someone is to prevent their leaving. To
abduct someone is "To carry off by force; kidnap" <from Websters>.
These are not synonyms. Or are there some 'detainment' stories
floating around that I am unaware of? The stories I have read have
been abductions. Is this the politically correct was to talk about
alien abductions? Perhaps they find the word offensive.

>Q:   Detainments, okay. Anyway, they underwent examinations of various

]more stuff omitted[

>Q:   Some of the pain has been physical pain, in that there have been
>     probes placed up into the nostrils.
>
>     Yes. Some of this is physical, and some of it is not. Some of it
>is such a strong telepathic idea that you think it is physical.
>
>Q:   Knowing that these people have agreed to have these interactions, then
>     since they have agreed, why are they still creating the fear? And then
>     corollary to that: one of the detainees said, "We wouldn't really mind
>     it if the aliens would just come out and say, 'Hey, would you be
>     willing to do this?' And we would be. They don't have to abduct us."
>     ... That made a lot of sense to me.
>
>>     Yes. Understand, of course, that the agreements are usually
>unconscious; that is part of the reason. Many times, as long as the

Is not 'unconscious agreement' an oxymoron? And depending on what this
means, it would probably be impossible to substantiate. Regardless,
any binding of meaningful agreement would have to be made consciously,
IMHO.

<[ yet even more stuff ommited <[

>     Yes! They have agreed to do this for all of you. That is why they
>are now sharing their experiences - so you can "vicariously" go
>through their "ordeal" with them, get in touch with the fear left
>within *you* and integrate it. Then the next series of interactions
>can become more and more conscious.

I think that fear of the unknown is perfectly normal, and a healthy
reaction. If ET's (or whatever) want to deal with mankind, first
they must remove themselves from the unknown category. Some from
this generation might never accept the idea (although most would
IMHO), but the next generation will probably take them for granted.

>Q:   Do you have any final comments that you'd like to communicate to him
>     and to his people in the book?
>
>     Only that we appreciate that he is doing what he agreed to do.
>And he is making a difference in the ability of your entire planet to
>allow your society and our respective societies to live in harmony
>with each other.

Perhaps it's just me, but I have not noticed any real changes (of any
sort, much less those attributable to ET's). Perhaps this is an example
of _unconsciouis harmony_?  :^)

-----> rest omitted <--------

>-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
>|     Walter D. "Cruiser1" Pullen     |     [e-mail]     |
>-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|
>|   "Who am I, What am I?  As I am, I am not.  But as we are, I AM.  And to
>-   you my creation, My Perfect Love is your Perfect Freedom. And I will be
>|   with you forever and ever, until the End, and then forever more." - GOD
>-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|

Rich

[e-mail]
Path: ns-mx!uunet!news.claremont.edu!ucivax!orion.oac.uci.edu!hepxvt.ps.uci.edu!cortese
From: [e-mail] (Janis Maria Cortese)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.pagan,alt.paranormal,talk.religion.newage
Subject: Re: Creating Peace On Earth by 2000 !
Keywords: Peace Clock
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 10 Mar 92 01:28:39 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Lines: 53
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4836 alt.pagan:13394 alt.paranormal:4601 talk.religion.newage:9705
Nntp-Posting-Host: hepxvt.ps.uci.edu

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (John Emery) writes:
>
>>                 -----  PEACE IN OUR LIFETIME -----
>>       <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<  PEACE CLOCK  >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>                 ------   A WORLDWIDE EVENT  ------
>>
>>STARTING NOW: Wherever you are, perform a silent meditation for world
>>              peace EVERY DAY AT NOON FOR ONE FULL MINUTE.
>>THE GOAL:     To have EVERY PERSON ON EARTH performing this event by the
>>              year 2000.
>
>A thought concerning world peace.  How can nations get along with one
>another when individuals can't?  People seem to have the hardest time
>getting along with people in their own household, own workers, etc.
>
>Before world peace is even possible, should not the issue of lack of
>peace in the individual be addressed?  Lack of peace stems in the
>heart of individuals and manifests to those around.  The introspective
>question I see at hand is for the individual: how do I find peace?
>

You find peace whatever way that works best for you.  I may find peace
through a different means.

>Amongst the waring that goes on in my soul, I have found where my source
>of peace comes from.  I would invite one to investigate Romans 5:1 and
>Ephesians 2:14 in the Holy Bible.

I won't get into this.  All I *will* say is that the Bible also says
that I am in subjugation to men.  How can I find peace in a book that
says such things about me?  If you can find peace there, so be it.
But, please, do not require that *I* do so.  And be aware that the Bible
says some mighty unsavory things, very un-peace-like.

>
>May peace be upon all who read this.  Remember, there is one who loves
>you and hold peace out in His hand.
>
>God bless,
>
>John Emery

There certainly is.  Your own god loves you; my personal goddess loves
me.  Through this convincing that something out there loves us no matter
what, hopefully things will improve.

We will, however, have to make our own peace.  There is no book or deity
out there that will make things all better with a wave of a magic wand.
WE have to do it -- all of it.  So let's roll up our sleeves and get to
work, people.

Regards and blessings,
Janis C.
Path: ns-mx!uunet!wupost!darwin.sura.net!Sirius.dfn.de!zrz.tu-berlin.de!news.netmbx.de!zelator!leo
From: [e-mail] (Stefan Hartmann)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal,sci.space,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Mars Face / General Info.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 10 Mar 92 09:45:20 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Puplic-Access-Xenix-System
Lines: 43
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4837 alt.paranormal:4603 sci.space:27626 sci.skeptic:21723

In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Norman) writes:

>I have been reading this debate about the Mars  face  with  interest.   I
>found  this  reference  to  a bulletin board in a book about UFO research.
>The trouble is I have no phone  at  the  moment.   Anyhow  being  a  poor
>student I don't think I can afford the cost of calls to America from England.

>The reference is as follows:
>Computer UFO Network / UFO Reports & Information Service.
>Connect at: 300 or 1200 BAUD,
>EIGHT DATA BITS,
>NO PARITY,
>ONE STOP BIT:
>USA [phone],
>FROM 20:00 TO 08:00 HRS WST.

>I  thought  that it might be of interest to someone a bit more local.  If
>it is of any interest could the kind hack please send me any of the  good
>bits?

>Thanks.
>><<<<<<N>>>>>><<<<<<N>>>>>><<<<<<N>>>>>><<<<<<N>>>>>><<<<<<N>>>>>><<<<<<N>>>>>><
>================================================================================
>ALIAS: Norman | JANET: [e-mail] | Emporium Of The Curious & Exotic.
>EMAIL: [e-mail] | No Job Too Small.
>================================================================================

Hi,
well great, please post any GIF-pics to alt.alien.visitors or better to
the UFO-pics-FTP-site at phoenix.oulu.fi (130.231.240.17)

Best regards, Stefan Hartmann,c/o Workshop for
Decentral Energy Research
email to: [e-mail]


--

*******************************************************************************
*  Stefan Hartmann       This is how to contact me:                           *
*  EMAIL: [e-mail]                                            *
*  Phone : ++ 49 30 344 23 66      FAX : ++ 49 30 344 92 79                   *
*******************************************************************************
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!wupost!waikato.ac.nz!aukuni.ac.nz!aklobs!kc
From: [e-mail] (Robert Sutton)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: NZ Crop Revelation
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 10 Mar 92 07:53:10 GMT
Organization: Kappa Crucis Unix BBS, Auckland, New Zealand
Lines: 8

Well thier's been a revelation in the saga of the NZ crop circles.Plan
to post the details from the newspapers here soon.

****************************
ARE ETOI SPACESHIPS SHY
OR ARE THEY JUST WAITING
TO SEAL THE ROYALTY DEAL
****************************
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!wupost!uunet!charon.amdahl.com!amdahl!JUTS!duts!dfs30
From: [e-mail] (Denise Solis)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.pagan,alt.paranormal,talk.religion.newage
Subject: Re: Creating Peace On Earth by 2000 !
Keywords: Peace Clock
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 10 Mar 92 16:04:08 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (John Emery) writes:
>
>>                 -----  PEACE IN OUR LIFETIME -----
>>       <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<  PEACE CLOCK  >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>                 ------   A WORLDWIDE EVENT  ------
>>
>A thought concerning world peace.  How can nations get along with one
>another when individuals can't? .....................................
>
>Amongst the waring that goes on in my soul, I have found where my source
>of peace comes from.  I would invite one to investigate Romans 5:1 and
>Ephesians 2:14 in the Holy Bible.
>
>John Emery

          John, Pray to God but row the boat towards shore!

                               :-)  Denise




--
=========================================================================
  All poetry posted is Copyright protected, anything else is just talk.
  "Tis true; theres magic in the web of it." [e-mail]
=========================================================================
Path: ns-mx!uunet!tellab5!jcj
From: [e-mail] (jcj)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re^2: The "FACE" from sci.space
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 10 Mar 92 18:30:23 GMT
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[e-mail] (R Ross Holder Jr) writes:

>... So brightening the image is distorting the true physical
>appearance of the face to make it look like a face.  And yet if the image
>isn't brightened it doesn't look like anything - except maybe dark.  It
>should be noted that this doesn't explain why other features in the photos
>that I've seen look as they should; craters look like craters, the terrain
>looks alot like terrain.  This "brightening" only affected the appearance of
>the face?

Have you ever worked with digitized data?  If not, talk to somebody
in your physics or astro department who has or who's worked with
CCD arrays.  Ask them if such a localized effect is possible.  Don't tell
them why you're asking if you think they'll ridicule you.  Are you
aware that you can see "canals" on Mars visually with a telescope?

>...  How do we know the second photograph isn't the one that's
>"distorted"?

Ok, I'll give you that one.

>The existance of such a crater might indicate that "the face" was subject
>to anything from a meteor collision to erosion.

Cite one terrestrial example of a crater being produced by erosion.
$20US says you can't.  The best you can come up with is maybe a sinkhole.
Ask somebody in the geology department.  An impact is a possibility; you
can determine the relative age of the scar by erosion.

>...  Many of Picasso's images don't look like faces to me - yet experts
>tell me that such images are not only faces, but reflections of people.

I'm not sure I see your point.  Because Picasso painted humans as what
I call pseudo-abstracts, a geological formation on Mars that doesn't look
like a face at one illumination angle but does at another is a face?
Isn't that what you philosophers call a non-sequitur?

>... If the writer was affiliated with NASA it would probably be incumbent
>upon him to respond to "the face" by playing down the quality of the image
>received.

It would probably be incumbent for NASA to talk it up in order to get
more funding ASAP to get up there and check it out.  But the Mars Explorer
is on the way, so we'll know relatively soon.  Unless the LGM are
sending clones to help the cover-up ;-)

>After all, we all know that all that alien stuff is horse-puckey
>anyway, isn't it?

The people who are convinced that *everything* related to UFO's
is pure bullshit don't waste their time reading this group, well
unless they're bored and are looking for laughs or looking for
an appreciative audience for their creative writing a la Gary.  I
obviously am a skeptic and I dismiss the New Age babble and conspiracy
theories outright.  I do not immediately discount eyewitness accounts
that have who's, what's, where's, and when's; I'd like to think the how's
and why's are attributable to ETs, but based on much of the info presented
so far in this group, I doubt it.  I guess we shouldn't rule out the
possibility that the weirded out crap posted in a.a.v is scaring people who
have had CEs from posting because they don't want to be associated with
crystal-worshipping mocha-making Pleiadeans and the green vibrating
hemorrhoids from Orion.  Oh well, 'nuff said.
--
              [e-mail]
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,talk.religion.newage
Subject: alien abductions
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 10 Mar 92 19:04:19 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
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In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Walter D. Pullen) writes:
>
>      Extraterrestrial abductions and visitations are an important
> topic in the UFO fields, mainly due to the many people that have had
experiences of this sort.
>      This article is divided into three related parts: First discussed
> is the abduction phenomena, from the point of view of the abductees
> and how they experience it.
>                             Criticism # 1 -- it is not from the point of view
of actual abductees, but from some lady claiming to be channeling some entity.

> one of the reasons for those interactions. They are all being made by
> agreement, even though your conscious minds may not remember those
> agreements.
Criticism #2 -- this claim, that abductees somehow "agreed" to being kidnapped,
on, and for the same things to be applied even to their
small children, is one of the outrageous "deceptions" practiced by the Aliens,
as Hopkins has made very clear in his books.
>
> Q:   Some of the pain has been physical pain, in that there have been
>      probes placed up into the nostrils.
>
>      Yes. Some of this is physical, and some of it is not. Some of it
> is such a strong telepathic idea that you think it is physical.
Citicism #3 --The lady doing the channeling obviously has not talked to any
people who have had actual abductions. Therefore her idea of what it is like is
not based upon evidence, but is a personal notion, unsubstantiated.

>

>      That initial reaction is not unusual for your society. But no
> need to fear. All the fear that you may experience in the idea of
> those interactions basically stems form that individual experiencing
> those interactions and allowing himself to release the fears that have
> been planted in his life. And also, nothing has happened in those
> interactions that the individual did not agree to at some point in his
> Q:   I thought it was very significant that every person to whom Strieber
>      talked who had had a similar experience - even though some of them
>      were still frightened, and didn't know if they were going crazy, or if
>      it was their imagination or what - still in spite of all that, they
>      felt love and affection.
>
Criticism #4 -- This is not true, certainly not true of the support group
Strieber met with, not true of others in support groups, and generally speaking
not true of people who get up and talk publicly at Conferences about their
experiences -- although a good many of these latter do subscribe to the "Love
'n' Light" view.

The whole phenomena of "channeling" is suspect. An experimental psychologist or
anyone else looking for hard data would gather facts from subjects who have had
the experience -- certainly not apply to a channeler, who would apply to an
alleged disencarnate entity to send back messages third-hand about what
abductees feel like and what Aliens are up to.
Path: ns-mx!uunet!psinntp!visix!news
From: [e-mail] (Amanda Walker)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.pagan,alt.paranormal,talk.religion.newage
Subject: Re: Creating Peace On Earth by 2000 !
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 10 Mar 92 20:44:57 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
    <[e-mail]>
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[e-mail] (John Emery) writes:
> Before world peace is even possible, should not the issue of lack of
> peace in the individual be addressed?  Lack of peace stems in the
> heart of individuals and manifests to those around.  The introspective
> question I see at hand is for the individual: how do I find peace?

Some people find it easier to work on external problems, some on
internal ones.  This doesn't make either approach better than the other,
though.  Just as you may find that introspection provides insight into
external problems, others may find that external work provides insight
into their own psyche.  A mixture of both is also quite possible.

> Amongst the waring that goes on in my soul, I have found where my source
> of peace comes from.  I would invite one to investigate Romans 5:1 and
> Ephesians 2:14 in the Holy Bible.

Other good sources include the Quran, the Bhagavad-Gita, the Tao Te
Ching, the writings of Buckminster Fuller or J.R.R. Tolkien, ... meaning
and insight depend upon the reader as much as the text being read.  It
is the reader who makes a text holy.

> May peace be upon all who read this.  Remember, there is one who loves
> you and hold peace out in His hand.

That one, however, has many names and wears many faces, sometimes
simultaneously.  It is up to us to see the peace already within our
hearts.

> God bless,

And give you wider insight,



Amanda Walker                              [e-mail]
Visix Software Inc.                    ...!uupsi!visix.com!amanda
--
"Everything you know is wrong."        --Firesign Theatre
Path: ns-mx!uunet!think.com!rpi!uwm.edu!lll-winken!lintilla!loren
From: [e-mail] (Loren Petrich)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.pagan,alt.paranormal,talk.religion.newage
Subject: Re: Creating Peace On Earth by 2000 !
Keywords: Peace Clock
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 11 Mar 92 01:32:04 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
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In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (John Emery) writes:

    [Carefully selected Bible passages + "interpretation" omitted]

    I notice a trick that this twice-born Fundie practices:

    He has an ingenious way of appropriating the concepts and
symbols of others to further his Fundie agenda. I saw him do that
about Star Trek, for instance. It is clear that he proudly makes
himself "all things for all people".

    I can't help but think that he would be stumped over some
aspects of neo-paganism, like reverence for trees and Goddess-worship,
however.


$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Loren Petrich, the Master Blaster: [e-mail]

Since this nodename is not widely known, you may have to try:

[e-mail]
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From: [e-mail] (Steve Gamble x3293)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Circles in the fields
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 9 Mar 92 13:49:04 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Steve Gamble x3293)
Organization: MRC Human Genome Mapping Project Resource Centre, Harrow, UK
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In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Questor Lau) writes:
> [stuff deleted]
> Why doesn't anyone do a
> square or triangle? Polygons that are not round have a right to be seen
> in fields too, do they not?

Although there are few reports of squares and triangles, they do exist. I
believe in all cases these have been shown to be as a result of human action.

I think you stated that even if the 'circles' were caused by humans that did
not rule out them being influenced by some higher force (that made them hoax
circles) Have I understood you correctly?

Steve.
--
(Disclaimer: These are not my employer's opinions, they may not even be mine!)
Steve Gamble, Computing Services,
Clinical Research Centre, Watford Road, Harrow, Middlesex, HA1 3UJ, UK.
Phone: [phone]  JANET: [e-mail] INTERNET: [e-mail]
Path: ns-mx!uunet!usc!apple![e-mail]
From: [e-mail] (Kent Sandvik)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: OIL BARONS SUPPRESS EMERGING TECHNOLOGIES
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 9 Mar 92 03:32:54 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
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In article <[e-mail]>,
[e-mail] (Len Bucuvalas [phone]) writes:
> Now to the other side of this coin.  Why has'nt this technology been
> allowed to become established?  We have to look at the 'profit motive'
> involved.  If we have free energy, how will they charge for it?  What
> will happen to the billions of dollars that the utilities and oil
> companies and the government backing these establishments do if we can
> give the people independence from the chains of having to pay for
> energy?

I find it hilarious that most of this 'conspiracy' issue concerning
cheap energy sources has to deal with *US based* oil companies.

For instance, if there was a simple and practical way to extract
energy not using oil, most of the Scandinavian energy R&D money
would have long time ago produced such an alternative. I actually
attended such a program in my alma mater, and we mostly looked into
the issues of solar and wind energy. Our laboratories had all kinds
of funky Tesla coils and such, but none of our professors even inclined
that we could do magic with magnetic fields. It would thus imply
that also these poor suckers are part of a world-wide academic conspiracy.

All in all, I personally think that this urban legend about Oil companies
keeping the lid on cheap energy is very much an American institution,
and has no real foundation in our current world-wide energy politics.

Cheers,
Kent
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!b-tech!ais.org!dc
From: [e-mail] (David Daniels)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Circles in the fields
Message-ID: <3NRK+L=@irie.ais.org>
Date: 11 Mar 92 19:47:10 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
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I remember seeing on TV, a segment of a show, which had two farmers (I
bleave) who admited to creating the circles. Then, later in the show, or on
a different show (can't recall) they had pretty solid proof that humans
could not have made these circles.. Does anyone know what any of this proof
was? The topic came up the other day and I can't quite remember anything
that they had said on the show..

--
________________________________________________________________________
\ E-Mail: [e-mail]        /\ Comin' from the unpolitically correct    \
 \__________________________\/\ half of this world refered to as       //
                             \_\ The ProjectZ!________________________//
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From: [e-mail] (Bat Rastard)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Circles in the fields
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 11 Mar 92 22:07:00 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <3NRK+L=@irie.ais.org>
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In article <3NRK+L=@irie.ais.org>, [e-mail] (David Daniels) writes...
>
>I remember seeing on TV, a segment of a show, which had two farmers (I
>bleave) who admited to creating the circles. Then, later in the show, or on
>a different show (can't recall) they had pretty solid proof that humans
>could not have made these circles.. Does anyone know what any of this proof
>was? The topic came up the other day and I can't quite remember anything
>that they had said on the show..
>
>--
Of course you can't!  The Terrornoids from Uranus made you forget!  :b
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From: [e-mail] (Questor Lau)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Creating Peace on Earth by 2000!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 11 Mar 92 21:12:21 GMT
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Lines: 48






    If there are still people interested in the imagination and action
discussion, allow me to comment, as was stated by an earlier post...

"Pray to God but keep rowing to shore."
        -Old Russian Proverb



    How I found this quote is an interesting story. I had read Rich's
post which asked some very good questions about the role of imagination
and action, but my response to this was slow in coming. To answer them
completely, would entail a highly theoretical and philosophical
discourse which would be boring if not more confusing...
    But I really wanted to post something to help clarif my feelings
about imagination, meditation, and action. And it was at this moment
that I looked up from the computer I was typing away on and saw the old
Russian proverb written on the board.
    Interesting how imagination here combined with the desire to take
action (and God knows whatever else,) to help me find such a terse
response.

    Regarding the question about dichotic listening... Yes, the person
hears different sounds from each ear. The point of this example was to
show that the unconscious can be influenced without our knowing it.
    Regarding imagination... I had just assumed that the imagination
exists partly within the conscious and partly within the unconscious.

    The details are nuances that can create differences between people
where none exist. I think we all agree that imagination is a nifty thing
to have in our lives. So is thought and action. They are all necessary
parts which make up a person. We all agree then... The words just get in
the way.


    -nuff said.


===========================================
"Even imaginary cookie
     taste good."         Cookie Monster

  Ahm-num-num-num-num-num!!!
==========================================
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From: [e-mail] (Leping N Zha)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal,sci.skeptic,sci.space
Subject: Re: Mars Face / General Info.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 11 Mar 92 23:42:24 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: University of Pittsburgh
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Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4849 alt.paranormal:4613 sci.skeptic:21801 sci.space:27724

The most comprehensive and scientific treatment to the Mars face (there are
three found so far!) can be seen in:

John E. Brandenburg, Vincent DiPietro & Gregory Molenaar:
The Cydonian Hypothesis
Journal of Scientific Exploration (published by SSE, the Society for
  Scientific Exploration, ERL 306, Stanford University, Stanford,
  CA 94305-4055 [phone]), Vol. 5, No.1 (1991), p1-25.

17 detailed figures (enhanced images from the original NASA data tape).

Abstract:
---------
Evidence suggesting a past humanoid civilization has been found at several
sites on Mars. In particular, what appear to be large carved faces, with
similar details, have been found at two seperate sites. Together with
geochemical and geological evidence that suggest Mars was once more
Earth-like in climate, the images of the objects support Cydonian Hypothesis:
That Mars once lived as the Earth now lives, and that it was once the home
of an indigenous humanoid intelligencee.
Path: ns-mx!uunet!peregrine!ccicpg!mbf!lawnet!stanton!qed!analogki
From: [e-mail] (Jeff Robertson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: UFOs
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Mar 92 23:12:59 GMT
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: The QED BBS, Lakewood CA
Lines: 42

I was watching this program on TBN Wedenesday evening called "UFO'S: The
Msytery RESOLVED" (I think) where the whole visitors from space thing is
explained from a Christian point-of-view. I've always wanted to know what the
Bible says about the existance of UFO's. I just hope this program doesn't
speak for them all.

The host of the show was using Demon Possession to explain the majority of
UFO related phenomena. Other cases would fall in the hoaxes or naturally
occuring/man-made category.

Now, I know the Bible mentions only Earth as being blessed with life, but it
never once EXCLUDED the existance of life elsewhere...so, I'm not too quick
to discount anyone's UFO experience based on this.

The host went on to say the UFO sightings are "...real, but not
physical...". Huh? Doesn't that about contradict itself? I guess he means to
say that these strange events are HAPPENING but aren't caused by MATERIAL
objects/beings. He also discussed the equation theory, although somewhat
altered, to form another basis of support against the existance of life. His
findings show a 1 in 1 trillion chance of life existing in the UNIVERSE.
Pretty bold statement, if you ask me. We can't even measure the expanse of
the universe & yet this guy comes up with a finite number. I choose to support
the work of Sagan & other astronomers with THEIR equation theory. The
results they obtained weren't trying to go too far. Their figures were only in
the billions and were limited to OUR galaxy, mostly.

What REALLY ticked me off the most about this broadcast, however, is the
poor argument against the "Roswell Incident". The host says the "...such a
secret could never really be kept silent, thus it must not have happened..."
(that's not a direct quote, but it sums up what he said). He compares this
kind of covertness to Watergate, where Nixon's attempt to keep an
incriminating audio tape from the public didn't last more than 11 days before
it got out. Now, you can't hardly compare a matter of national security,
which the government has NO trouble denying, with a Presidential cover-up.
Nixon's crimes, no matter how large, don't come close to visitors from
space. Those miliary folks won't have any trouble at all convincing the
public that it was "something else".


------------------------------
[e-mail] (Jeff Robertson)  or  qed!analogki
The QED BBS -- [phone]
Path: ns-mx!uunet!europa.asd.contel.com!darwin.sura.net!Sirius.dfn.de!fauern!unido!mcsun!uknet!gdt!brispoly!mr_hudso
From: [e-mail] (Mark Hudson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.pagan,alt.paranormal,talk.religion.newage
Subject: Re: Creating Peace On Earth by 2000 !
Keywords: Peace Clock, fnord
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 11 Mar 92 12:20:02 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Bristol Polytechnic, England
Lines: 32
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Jesse Flint) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Walter D. Pullen) writes:
>>
Beaucoup stuff deleted..

>Now... I AM a Neo-Pagan, but this MADE ME DIE LAUGHING. What the HELL is going
>on here? A bunch of crystal-wielding airheads sitting around meditating is NOT
>going to bring peace; application and understanding WILL.
>We are sitting on the verge of the 21st Century, communicating on a computer
>net that would have been impossible 20 years ago, and for what? So we can all
>sit in our comfy chairs with a can of celery juice and IMAGINE peace into
>existance. GREAT. I guess the massive changes in Europe and the (ex-) USSR
>were due to IMAGINING. I guess we can just IMAGINE a Democratic president
>into office, IMAGINE ourselves a better world, IMAGINE contact with other
>intelligences, IMAGINE immortality and intelligence increase. DUH. We should
>be out DOING these things with the aid of high-tech; a world where people can
>communicate world-wide over the Internet and can publish their own books
>(literally!) on their desktops is a world where we can MAKE great things
>instead of just IMAGINING them.
>But, if you want... imagine away. Maybe it WILL help. Just DO something to
>back it up.

People need to IMAGINE stuff BEFORE they go and do it, but I agree with you
some people just imagine and never do anything although some of them make
quite a bit of money out of it ;->


--
**//Mark Hudson************************ 18 Mayfield Avenue Fishponds ********
\X/[e-mail]********* Bristol BS163NL  England ************
***Celine Je t'aime******************** Tel : UK  0272 656150 ***************

Path: ns-mx!uunet!munnari.oz.au!cluster!metro!socs.uts.edu.au!syzygy!axolotl
From: [e-mail] (Iain Sinclair)
Newsgroups: alt.slack,alt.alien.visitors,aus.flame
Subject: CRUCIAL ANNOUNCEMENT!
Message-ID: <axolotl.700389606@syzygy>
Date: 12 Mar 92 08:40:06 GMT
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Organization: University of Technology, Sydney
Lines: 18
Xref: ns-mx alt.slack:2544 alt.alien.visitors:4852


From a leaflet pinned up around here:
                            _
                          RAEL

              CONTACTED BY EXTRATERRESTRIALS!

            will give an exceptional conference

             on Thursday 26th Match at 8.00 p.m.


                     Admission: $10.00


--
Iain Sinclair   [e-mail]
Path: ns-mx!uunet!munnari.oz.au!metro!usage!sserve!news
From: [e-mail] (Warren Toomey)
Newsgroups: alt.slack,alt.alien.visitors,aus.flame
Subject: Re: CRUCIAL ANNOUNCEMENT!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 12 Mar 92 11:02:25 GMT
References: <axolotl.700389606@syzygy>
Sender: [e-mail]
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Xref: ns-mx alt.slack:2545 alt.alien.visitors:4853

From article <axolotl.706@syzygy>, by [e-mail] (Iain Sinclair):
>                             _
>                           RAEL
>               CONTACTED BY EXTRATERRESTRIALS!
>                      Admission: $10.00

I wouldn't pay that much to see a person covered in sticky plastic.

    Warren

       Warren Toomey VK1XWT, cold but happy
      Deep in the bowels of ADFA Comp Science.
  `POSIX Job Control?! POXY job control more like!'
Path: ns-mx!uunet!olivea!isc-br!tau-ceti!geraldb
From: [e-mail] (Gerald Bryan (Denver))
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.pagan,alt.paranormal,talk.religion.newage
Subject: Re: Creating Peace On Earth by 2000 !
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 12 Mar 92 15:02:41 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: ?
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Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4854 alt.pagan:13443 alt.paranormal:4619 talk.religion.newage:9729

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Amanda Walker) writes:
>Some people find it easier to work on external problems, some on
>internal ones.  This doesn't make either approach better than the other,
>though.  Just as you may find that introspection provides insight into
>external problems, others may find that external work provides insight
>into their own psyche.  A mixture of both is also quite possible.

From an enlightened point of view (no, I'm not speaking from personal
experience, just repeating what I've read, like a trained dog), the inner
and the outer are the same.  Nevertheless, it seems that working on the
inner leads more quickly to insight.  I think the reason is that when one
is consciously working on the outer, then the fixer-fixee duality is
strengthened, rather than explored and questioned.

Working on the inner leads more quickly to the discovery that the fixer
and the fixee are intertwined, then the same, then nonexistent.
--
"Believe what you want, but DON'T believe it here" -- Harry Crumb
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From: [e-mail] (Eric Defonso)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Circles in the fields
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 12 Mar 92 15:08:56 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <3NRK+L=@irie.ais.org>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: McDonald Observatory, University of Texas @ Austin
Lines: 41

In article <3NRK+L=@irie.ais.org> [e-mail] (David Daniels) writes:
>
>I remember seeing on TV, a segment of a show, which had two farmers (I
>bleave) who admited to creating the circles. Then, later in the show, or on
>a different show (can't recall) they had pretty solid proof that humans
>could not have made these circles.. Does anyone know what any of this proof
>was? The topic came up the other day and I can't quite remember anything
>that they had said on the show..
>

That's rather bold, asserting that humans are incapable of making something
as mundane as a crop circle. I don't know about the show to which you
refer, but I wouldn't expect any plausible argument for either
extraterrestrial or meteorological design.
    It reminds me of one particular situation in Britain a couple
years ago when some so-called "experts" observed several dozen small
crop circles in some farmer's field near a hill. They concluded upon
"careful analysis" that no human could have ever made all these
circles, and that the circles showed all the characteristics of a
ET origin....and they made these assertions on television too.
    Too bad for them that the farmer who owned the field then
spoke up and said he made the circles himself to encourage grouse to
settle.

    OOOPS!

Don't put anything beyond human ingenuity. Give us credit for once,
please!

>--
>________________________________________________________________________
>\ E-Mail: [e-mail]        /\ Comin' from the unpolitically correct    \
> \__________________________\/\ half of this world refered to as       //
>                             \_\ The ProjectZ!________________________//


--
Eric DeFonso (astro.as.utexas.edu)
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
In Search Of...a good .sig **** "When in doubt, tell the truth." - Twain
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
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From: [e-mail] (Rich Payne)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: UFOs
Message-ID: <a#[e-mail]>
Date: 12 Mar 92 15:12:56 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)
Lines: 54

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Jeff Robertson) writes:
>I was watching this program on TBN Wedenesday evening called "UFO'S: The
>Msytery RESOLVED" (I think) where the whole visitors from space thing is
>explained from a Christian point-of-view. I've always wanted to know what the
>Bible says about the existance of UFO's. I just hope this program doesn't
>speak for them all.
>
>The host of the show was using Demon Possession to explain the majority of
>UFO related phenomena. Other cases would fall in the hoaxes or naturally
>occuring/man-made category.
>
>Now, I know the Bible mentions only Earth as being blessed with life, but it
>never once EXCLUDED the existance of life elsewhere...so, I'm not too quick
>to discount anyone's UFO experience based on this.
>
>The host went on to say the UFO sightings are "...real, but not
>physical...". Huh? Doesn't that about contradict itself? I guess he means to
>say that these strange events are HAPPENING but aren't caused by MATERIAL
>objects/beings. He also discussed the equation theory, although somewhat
>altered, to form another basis of support against the existance of life. His
>findings show a 1 in 1 trillion chance of life existing in the UNIVERSE.
>Pretty bold statement, if you ask me. We can't even measure the expanse of
>the universe & yet this guy comes up with a finite number. I choose to support
>the work of Sagan & other astronomers with THEIR equation theory. The
>results they obtained weren't trying to go too far. Their figures were only in
>the billions and were limited to OUR galaxy, mostly.

But lets be fair, their numbers were pure guesswork also. Most of the
figures used (like % of stars w/planets) had a 0 data to back them up.
As near as I can tell, all of these figures are equal. Until we get
something better than pure guesswork to go on, this will be the best
we can do. You could not even call Sagan's number an informed guess.
It *is* interesting to speculate.

>What REALLY ticked me off the most about this broadcast, however, is the
>poor argument against the "Roswell Incident". The host says the "...such a
>secret could never really be kept silent, thus it must not have happened..."
>(that's not a direct quote, but it sums up what he said). He compares this
>kind of covertness to Watergate, where Nixon's attempt to keep an
>incriminating audio tape from the public didn't last more than 11 days before
>it got out. Now, you can't hardly compare a matter of national security,
>which the government has NO trouble denying, with a Presidential cover-up.
>Nixon's crimes, no matter how large, don't come close to visitors from
>space. Those miliary folks won't have any trouble at all convincing the
>public that it was "something else".
>
>
>------------------------------
>[e-mail] (Jeff Robertson)  or  qed!analogki
>The QED BBS -- [phone]

Rich

[e-mail]
Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!uknet!ox-prg!msc1.comlab!leaver
From: [e-mail] (Andrew Leaver)
Newsgroups: alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Dreamland
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 12 Mar 92 16:25:47 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Oxford University Computing Laboratory, UK
Lines: 23
Xref: ns-mx alt.paranormal:4620 alt.alien.visitors:4857 sci.skeptic:21824

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Marc MILANINI) writes:
>
><Flame on>
>Seems to me that you missed an -another?- opportunity to shut up. First,
>I don't think that Newton was really a genius. Hard-working, certainly,
>but his intelligence was quite common, I believe.
> ...
><Flame off>

Obviously, whether any particular person was a genius or not is
a matter of opinion. However, in the `History of Science' type books
and Encyclopaedia entries I have read on Newton (check Encyclopaedia
Britannica, and Isaac Asimov's book of biographies) the general
consensus is that he was one of the brightest scientists the world has
seen, perhaps even *the* most brilliant. He was also, by all accounts, a
rather unpleasant guy - but that's beside the point!

>--
>=---K8>>@@@@@@@@ Marc Milanini @@@@ [e-mail] @@@@%%

Andrew ------------------------------------- [e-mail]
  //    "You can choose from phantom fears     And kindness that can kill;
\\/      I will choose a path that's clear -   I will choose Free Will" - RUSH
Path: ns-mx!uunet!usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!ucbvax!stratus.swdc.stratus.com!lpb
From: [e-mail] (Len Bucuvalas x5363)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: The Talmud as Given by Judas Iscariot
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 12 Mar 92 19:15:25 GMT
Sender: [e-mail]
Lines: 288

I was sent this by a friend to post.  I find it challanging and believeable
in light of how the bible has been edited over the years from the original as
written by the apostles.....you decide...the following is a short excerpt
of selected sections.

Len
=========================================================================


The Talmud of Jmmanuel

-------

First translation of the Aramaic script written by Judas Iscariot, the
disciple of Jmmanuel (Jesus), discovered in 1963 in the burial cave of
Jmmanuel.

The Clear Translation in English and German.

Translated into German by Isa Rashid and Eduard Meier, and translated into
English by Julie Ziegler and B. L. Greene.

-------

Dedicated to the man known to many as Jesus, known herein as Jmmanuel,
in the hope that the truths that he shared may be heard clearly today.

-------

  Copyright 1992 Wild Flower Press Box 230893 Tigard, OR 97224
  800/366-0264.

-------

Selected Portions to Raise Your Consciousness:

-------

6:10  "Be aware also, that through this sacred thing the almighty power of the
spirit always dwells within yourself.
6:11  "Therefore pray as one who knows, and thus pray as follows:
6:12  "'My spirit, you are omnipotent.
6:13  "'Your name be holy.
6:14  "'Let your kingdom incarnate itself in me.
6:15  "'Let your power unfold itself within me, on Earth and in the heavens.
6:16  "'Give me today my daily bread, so that I recognize my guilt and the
truth.
6:17  "'And lead me not into temptation and confusion, but deliver me from
error.
6:18  "'For yours is the kingdom within me and the power and the knowledge
forever. Amen.'
6:19  "When you pray to your spirit, it will give you what you request; trust
with knowledge, and you will receive.
6:20  "However, if you believe in the false teachings that the power and
spirit do not dwell within you, then you will be without knowledge and will
live in spiritual poverty.
6:21  "Though you will also receive now and then what you in your false belief
request from misused sacred things, idols and gods, you will receive only out
of your strong false belief, without knowledge of the real truth.
6:22  "Truly, I say to you: Blessed are only those who serve the actual truth
and knowledge, because only they receive in honesty.

-----

1:1   This is the book and mystery of Jmmanuel, which means "the one with
godly knowledge," who is a son of Joseph, of Jacob, the distant descendant of
David, who was a descendant of Abraham, whose lineage traces back to Adam, the
father of one of Earth's human races, who was begotten by Semjasa, the leader
of the celestial sons who were the guardian angels of god, the great ruler of
the distant travelers.
1:2   Semjasa, the celestial son and guardian angel of god, the great ruler of
the distant travelers who traversed the expanse of the universe, together with
a terrestrial woman, begot Adam, the father of the white human race.
1:3   Adam took for himself an earth wife and begot Seth.
1:4   Seth begot Enos.

1:80  Jacob begot Joseph.

-----

3:26  As John the Baptist thus spoke, behold, Jmmanuel of Galilee then came to
him at the Jordan, to be baptized by him.
3:27  John, however, refused him and spoke, "I certainly need to be baptized
by you, because you possess greater knowledge than I, and you come to me?"
3:28  But Jmmanuel answered him, "Let it happen so now, because it is fitting
for us to fulfill all justice, since we are both sons of the earth."
3:29  So John consented and baptized him.
3:30  When Jmmanuel had been baptized, he soon came out of the water of the
Jordan, and behold, a metallic light dropped from the sky and descended
steeply over the Jordan.
3:31  Consequently they all fell on their faces and pressed them into the sand
while a voice from the metallic light spoke,
3:32  "This is my beloved son with whom I am well pleased. He will be the king
of truth who will lift this human race to knowledge."
3:33  Behold, after these words Jmmanuel entered into the metallic light,
which climbed into the sky, surrounded by fire and smoke, and passed over the
lifeless sea, as the singing of the metallic light soon faded away.
3:34  After that, Jmmanuel was no longer seen for forty days and nights.

-----

4:46  "In the name of god the law was issued to create you so that you may
serve as prophet and pioneer of wisdom for these human races.
4:47  "Fulfill your mission unperturbed in the face of irrationality,
disbelieving people and false teachings of the scribes and Pharisees.
4:48  "Hence, following the fulfillment of your mission, centuries and two
millennia will pass before the truth of your knowledge brought among the
people will be recognized and disseminated by some humans.
4:49  "Not until the time of space-traveling machines will the truth break
through and gradually shake the false teaching that you are the son of god or
Creation.
4:50  "However, this will be the time when we celestial sons begin to reveal
ourselves anew to the human races, since they will have become knowing and
with their acquired power threaten the structure of the heavens."
4:51  Thus they spoke, the celestial sons between the North and the West,
before they took Jmmanuel in the metallic light back to Israel, to the land of
Galilee.

-----

12:19  "Truly, truly, I say to you: These laws of order were given by nature
and should be followed, or human beings will bring death to themselves and to
the masses.
12:20  "This earth can nourish and support five hundred million people of all
the human races. But if these laws are not followed, in two thousand years ten
times five hundred million people will exist, and the earth will not be able
to support them any more.
12:21  "Famines, catastrophes, world wars and epidemics will control the earth,
and the human races will commit suicide, with only a few surviving.
12:22  "Truly, I say to you: There will be wailing and chattering of teeth when
so much human blood is shed upon the sands of the earth that new life forms
will arise from it, which will bring the final horror to mankind.
12:23  "But on this day you have been allowed to receive all good things, and
the laws have been given to you by which you should live.
12:24  "And you should adhere to additional laws, so that you will have
prosperity on earth and peace in your families.
12:25  "Do away with the enforcement of the old law that woman should be
subject to man, since she is a person like a man, with equal rights and
obligations.

-----

25:36  "When at that point someone will say to the people, 'Behold, here is
Jmmanuel, who is the sign of the time,' they should not accept it to be true.
25:37  "Because many a false Jmmanuel and many impostors and false prophets
will rise and do great signs, it becomes possible to lead astray not only
those who seek, believe and err, but also the scholars and intelligent people.
25:38  "Behold, I told you so before, and so it will fulfill itself.
25:39  "Therefore, when impostors and those led astray will say, 'He is in the
desert,' people shall not go there, and when they say, 'Truly, he is in a
chamber,' they shall not accept it as the truth.
25:40  "Since I will certainly return at that time, I will let them recognize
me.
25:41  "This is how the law and destiny want it, and that's the way it will be.
25:42  "Just as lightning starts from its rise and radiates until its setting,
so will be my coming in the future, when I bring the teaching anew and
announce the legions of the celestial sons, when I will have a renewed life
and will again be accused of deception and blasphemy over the breadth of the
world, until the teaching of truth will bring about insight and change in
people.
25:43  "People of all times, beware: where the carcass is, there the vultures
will gather, so watch out.
25:44  "Soon after the grief of that time, sun and moon will lose their luster,
comets will fall from the sky and the powers of the heavens will start to
sway.
25:45  "The structure of the heavens and of the air will be disturbed, and the
land will burn because of the black oil of the earth, ignited by the greed of
the people, and the sky will be dark because of smoke and fire, and so the
weather will break down, and severe cold and many deaths among people, plants
and animals all over the earth will result from people's power senselessly
developed, and people will live with their greed for power and mania and vice.
25:46  "Then there will appear signs in the sky, and all races on earth will
cry and come to see the signs in the clouds of the sky that witness of great
power and strict judgments against irrationality.
25:47  "Since god is the ruler over three human races, the laws and
commandments of Creation will be valid in all eternity through which, as
representation of Creation and human irrationality, people will judge
themselves with anger.
25:48  "People owe their existence to god, who is the ruler over them, so that
they have to follow his commandments and respect him as the greatest king of
wisdom.
25:49  "He will send his guardian angels with loud trumpets that will gather
his followers from all directions, from one end of the earth to the other.
25:50  "Do learn a parable from the fig tree; when its branch puts forth
leaves, you know that summer is near.
25:51  "So it will also be at that time when the people see all of this, they
will know that the end is close at hand.
25:52  "Truly, truly, I say to you: This is how it will be.
25:53  "This human race will not perish until all of this has come about.
25:54  "The heavens and the earth will pass, and so will the universe; but my
words will not pass, because they are words of truth within the laws of
Creation.
25:55  "No one knows the day or hour when all this will happen, neither the
guardian angels, nor god himself, nor I, Jmmanuel, but only providence and
destiny through the laws and commandments of Creation, which possesses the
greatest wisdom.
25:56  "Creation alone rises far above all human races, and it alone deserves
honor and praise, just as it renders honor and praise to the absolute power
above it.
25:57  "If people revere and honor god and recognize only Creation as the
supreme power, they act according to the truth."

-----

27:27  "While we are here together, Juda Ihariot, the son of the Pharisee in
Jerusalem, is hatching a plot against me as to how he can betray me to the
chief priests.
27:28  "While we are gathered here, he is asking the chief priests for the
blood money that they offer for my capture.
27:29  "Thirty pieces of silver are offered to him if they catch me through his
help.
27:30  "While they are forging this plan, they are also hatching the plot
against one among you, since they want to present a culprit to the people.
27:31  "Thus Juda Ihariot, the son of the Pharisee, will turn me over to the
soldiers, and my disciple, Judas Iscariot, is supposed to be considered the
traitor,
27:32  "so that the people will say, 'Behold, these confused people are divided
among themselves and therefore one betrays the other. So, how can the teaching
of Jmmanuel be the truth?'
27:33  "But since Juda Ihariot, the son of the Pharisee, and my disciple, Judas
Iscariot, have almost identical names, the lie of the chief priests will be
accepted from the beginning."

-----

36:29  "Truly, I say to you: Those who understand the truth of this speech and
attain understanding in wisdom are obliged to align their lives with their
destiny of eternal change towards Creation.
36:30  "When people are honest and search, they will not know any preconceived
opinion or prejudice.
36:31  "But the wise know and are aware of the law of the everlasting river of
eternal change; therefore they endeavor to adjust to the great course of
happenings, because they recognize the laws of Creation, that the cycles of
life have to be closed through the determinations of the laws.
36:32  "Wherever life reveals itself, it is based upon the law of the invisible
secret that brings about the eternal change.
36:33  "Whoever disregards and fails to recognize timeless and imperishable
laws and truths will have to suffer evil consequences.
36:34  "Lies and hatred will blind such a person and even entire peoples, and
they will rush into the abyss of their own destruction.
36:35  "A blind, destructive mania will come over them, and the heroes among
them will be the greatest destroyers.
36:36  "Discord will permeate people's entire lives, and there is no longer a
unity or perfection when there is a split.
36:37  "As long as there is imperfection in life, people will have to bear
these consequences: sickness, misery, injustice, need, fighting, strife,
slavery, false sects and exploitation leading to bloodshed and death.
36:38  "So let the human beware and wake up, because the laws of Creation say
that only that which is timeless and everlasting is of permanence, truth and
wisdom, and so it is."

-----

  Copyright 1992 Wild Flower Press Box 230893 Tigard, OR 97224
  800/366-0264.

-----

These are only a few selections from:

THE TALMUD OF JMMANUEL

First translation of the Aramaic script written by Judas Iscariot, the
disciple of Jmmanuel (Jesus), discovered in 1963 in the burial cave of
Jmmanuel.

The Clear Translation in English and German.

Translated into German by Isa Rashid and Eduard Meier, and translated into
English by Julie Ziegler and B. L. Greene.

ISBN 0-926524-12-7.
Library of Congress Catalog Cd. No. 90-34240, First Edition:  1992.

-------

Available from the publisher:

Wild Flower Press
P.O. Box 230893
Tigard, OR 97224
[phone]
$15.95 + $2.50 S/H = $18.45.

*******


----- End Included Message -----
Path: ns-mx!uunet!munnari.oz.au!yoyo.aarnet.edu.au!sirius.ucs.adelaide.edu.au!augean.eleceng.adelaide.edu.AU!dabbott
From: [e-mail] (Derek Abbott)
Newsgroups: alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Dreamland
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 13 Mar 92 02:56:09 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Electrical and Electronic Eng., University of Adelaide
Lines: 28
Xref: ns-mx alt.paranormal:4624 alt.alien.visitors:4859 sci.skeptic:21841

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Andrew Leaver) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Marc MILANINI) writes:
>>
>><Flame on>
>>Seems to me that you missed an -another?- opportunity to shut up. First,
>>I don't think that Newton was really a genius. Hard-working, certainly,
>>but his intelligence was quite common, I believe.
>> ...
>><Flame off>
>
>Obviously, whether any particular person was a genius or not is
>a matter of opinion. However, in the `History of Science' type books
>and Encyclopaedia entries I have read on Newton (check Encyclopaedia
>Britannica, and Isaac Asimov's book of biographies) the general
>consensus is that he was one of the brightest scientists the world has
>seen, perhaps even *the* most brilliant. He was also, by all accounts, a
>rather unpleasant guy - but that's beside the point!
>
>>--
>>=---K8>>@@@@@@@@ Marc Milanini @@@@ [e-mail] @@@@%%
>
>Andrew ------------------------------------- [e-mail]


Wasn't it Thomas Alva Edison who said "Genius is 99% perspiration and
1% inspiration." ???

Derek :-)
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!rpi!uwm.edu!linac!att!cbnewse!cbnewsd!press2
From: [e-mail] (barry.o.olson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Whitley Shrieber on CNN
Keywords: Larry King show
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 13 Mar 92 04:23:52 GMT
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
Lines: 12



Yes, he was on the LK show wednesday(3/11) for a 30 minute spot.
He didn't say much about his past experiences except he still
doesn't comprehend what happened to him. He equated the experiences
with the frightening aliens as a possible encounter with biblical
demons. He talked mostly about his new book _Unholy Fire_. He
also spoke some about his faith as a Catholic.
I was shocked that I didn't see this emblazoned on a.a.v when I
logged on today to read. Am I the only one who saw this program?

barry--
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!spdcc!rdonahue
From: [e-mail] (Bob Donahue)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: They're after me!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 13 Mar 92 04:35:23 GMT
Organization: insert anything here
Lines: 22


    [start spooky music]

    A friend of mine was interested in seeing _Communion_ when he was
over the other night.

    So I plopped the tape in the VCR.  I had made this tape a few
months ago when it was on Showtime or one of the cable channels.
At the time I taped it I WAS THERE WATCHING IT, and nothing strange
had occured.

    Throughout the ENTIRE movie, during ALL of the abduction scenes
and all of the flashbacks, the sound completely dropped out!  When
the script went back to the NYC scenes, etc. I "re-got" my sound.
I don't think I"ve ever watched this movie since I taped it, but like
I said, I was there watdching it while it was being taped...

    Weird no?

BBC

P.S.  I'm dead serious about this!  I'm not kidding!
Path: ns-mx!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!utgpu!cunews!nrcnet0!bnrgate!stl!stc!fsb
From: [e-mail] (Frank Stuart Brown)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal,sci.skeptic,sci.space
Subject: Re: Mars Face / General Info.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 13 Mar 92 12:07:32 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (System Administration)
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Frank Stuart Brown)
Organization: STC Telecomms, New Southgate, London, N11 1HB
Lines: 28
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4862 alt.paranormal:4625 sci.skeptic:21848 sci.space:27817

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Leping N Zha) writes:
>The most comprehensive and scientific treatment to the Mars face (there are
>three found so far!) can be seen in:
>
>John E. Brandenburg, Vincent DiPietro & Gregory Molenaar:
>The Cydonian Hypothesis
>Journal of Scientific Exploration (published by SSE, the Society for
>  Scientific Exploration, ERL 306, Stanford University, Stanford,

I find the subject of past life on Mars fascinating.
I pose the thoughts that:
    1. Millions of years ago Mars was like earth.
    2. At the same time earth was the equivalent of
       what venus is now.
    3. As the sun shrinks so the outer planets cool and
       we must move nearer the sun.
    4. Venus will eventually be habitable as earth dies.
    5. Was the asteroid belt our original planet before Mars?

No flames please just genuine discussion.

Thanks,
Frank
--
"On the plains of hesitation lie the bones of countless millions, of those
who stopped to view their success, and while resting - died!"
<[e-mail]>  ||  !mcsun!ukc!stc!fsb
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Path: ns-mx!uunet!caen!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.unomaha.edu!news
From: [e-mail] (Travis R. Stone)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: I Seriously Doubt They're After You
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 13 Mar 92 13:57:13 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (UNO Network News Server)
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Lines: 5
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.11

Sounds like a defective tape to me.

T.R. Stone
University of Nebraska-Omaha
Home of the Toughest Organic Chemistry Instructors in the Galaxy
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!ames!apple!netcomsv!mork!payner
From: [e-mail] (Rich Payne)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal,sci.skeptic,sci.space
Subject: Re: Mars Face / General Info.
Message-ID: <h#[e-mail]>
Date: 13 Mar 92 15:22:09 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)
Lines: 53
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4864 alt.paranormal:4626 sci.skeptic:21852 sci.space:27820

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Frank Stuart Brown) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Leping N Zha) writes:
>>The most comprehensive and scientific treatment to the Mars face (there are
>>three found so far!) can be seen in:
>>
>>John E. Brandenburg, Vincent DiPietro & Gregory Molenaar:
>>The Cydonian Hypothesis
>>Journal of Scientific Exploration (published by SSE, the Society for
>>  Scientific Exploration, ERL 306, Stanford University, Stanford,
>
>I find the subject of past life on Mars fascinating.
>I pose the thoughts that:
>    1. Millions of years ago Mars was like earth.

This is by no means cartain. It does like like at some time in the
past, there was running water, but this does not imply earth-like.


>    2. At the same time earth was the equivalent of
>       what venus is now.

This is not true. The earth was never like Venus. If it were, we
would not be here today to have this chat.

>    3. As the sun shrinks so the outer planets cool and
>       we must move nearer the sun.

Current theory predicts that as the sun uses up the hydrogen in
it's core, it will expand, eventually enveloping the inner planets,
including the earth.


>    4. Venus will eventually be habitable as earth dies.

See above.

>    5. Was the asteroid belt our original planet before Mars?

????????????????????????????  What was that again??

>No flames please just genuine discussion.
>
>Thanks,
>Frank
>--
>"On the plains of hesitation lie the bones of countless millions, of those
>who stopped to view their success, and while resting - died!"
><[e-mail]>  ||  !mcsun!ukc!stc!fsb
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Rich

[e-mail]
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!ames!apple!netcomsv!mork!sheaffer
From: [e-mail] (Robert Sheaffer)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal,sci.skeptic,sci.space
Subject: Re: Mars Face / General Info.
Message-ID: <v#[e-mail]>
Date: 13 Mar 92 15:33:01 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)
Lines: 23
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4865 alt.paranormal:4627 sci.skeptic:21854 sci.space:27822

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Frank Stuart Brown) writes:
>I find the subject of past life on Mars fascinating.
>I pose the thoughts that:
>    1. Millions of years ago Mars was like earth.
>    2. At the same time earth was the equivalent of
>       what venus is now.
>    3. As the sun shrinks so the outer planets cool and
>       we must move nearer the sun.
>    4. Venus will eventually be habitable as earth dies.
>    5. Was the asteroid belt our original planet before Mars?
>
I'm afraid not. Astrophysicists tell us that all "main-sequence" stars
(and this inculdes the sun) slowly *increase* their luminosity, until
they run out of fuel. Your theory requires their luminosity to decrease.

--

        Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - [e-mail]

 Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!

               "The facts can only take you so far in this case.",
      - Oliver Stone, discussing "JFK" on CBS-TV's "48 Hours", Feb. 5, 1992
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!apple!netcomsv!mork!sheaffer
From: [e-mail] (Robert Sheaffer)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: The Talmud as Given by Judas Iscariot
Message-ID: <![e-mail]>
Date: 13 Mar 92 15:48:38 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)
Lines: 29

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Len Bucuvalas x5363) writes:
>I was sent this by a friend to post.  I find it challanging and believeable
>in light of how the bible has been edited over the years from the original as
>written by the apostles.....you decide...the following is a short excerpt
>
>First translation of the Aramaic script written by Judas Iscariot, the
>disciple of Jmmanuel (Jesus), discovered in 1963 in the burial cave of
>Jmmanuel.
>
>Translated into German by Isa Rashid and Eduard Meier, and translated into
>English by Julie Ziegler and B. L. Greene.
>
Eduard "Billy" Meier of Switzerland is the perpetrator of the notorious
"UFOs from the Pleiades" hoax.


>1:2   Semjasa, the celestial son and guardian angel of god, the great ruler of
>the distant travelers who traversed the expanse of the universe, together with
>a terrestrial woman, begot Adam, the father of the white human race.

"Semjase" is the name of Meier's extraterrestrial girlfriend.
--

        Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - [e-mail]

 Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!

               "The facts can only take you so far in this case.",
      - Oliver Stone, discussing "JFK" on CBS-TV's "48 Hours", Feb. 5, 1992
Path: ns-mx!uunet!decwrl!pa.dec.com!shodha.enet.dec.com!timpson
From: [e-mail] (Steve Timpson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: They're after me!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 13 Mar 92 13:46:03 GMT
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Lines: 25


In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Bob Donahue) writes...
*>
*>    [start spooky music]
*>
*>    A friend of mine was interested in seeing _Communion_ when he was
*>over the other night.
*>
*>    So I plopped the tape in the VCR.  I had made this tape a few
*>months ago when it was on Showtime or one of the cable channels.
*>At the time I taped it I WAS THERE WATCHING IT, and nothing strange
*>had occured.
*>
*>    Throughout the ENTIRE movie, during ALL of the abduction scenes
*>and all of the flashbacks, the sound completely dropped out!  When
*>the script went back to the NYC scenes, etc. I "re-got" my sound.
*>I don't think I"ve ever watched this movie since I taped it, but like
*>I said, I was there watdching it while it was being taped...
*>
*>    Weird no?
*>

        No!

        Steve Food_for_the_Grays
Path: ns-mx!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ames!tulane!rouge!pgf
From: [e-mail] (Phil G. Fraering)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal,sci.skeptic,sci.space
Subject: Re: Mars Face / General Info.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 13 Mar 92 16:31:32 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Anonymous NNTP Posting)
Organization: Univ. of Southwestern Louisiana
Lines: 37
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4868 alt.paranormal:4629 sci.skeptic:21855 sci.space:27826

[e-mail] (Frank Stuart Brown) writes:

>I find the subject of past life on Mars fascinating.
>I pose the thoughts that:
>    1. Millions of years ago Mars was like earth.

Perhaps true, but "billions" would be a more correct time scale.

>    2. At the same time earth was the equivalent of
>       what venus is now.

Not true whatsoever.

>    3. As the sun shrinks so the outer planets cool and
>       we must move nearer the sun.

Before the sun starts shrinking, it will expand outward, and
the Earth _may_ become like Venus...

>    4. Venus will eventually be habitable as earth dies.

Venus will only become habitable if someone makes it so. It would
require a lot of energy to remove its atmosphere.

>    5. Was the asteroid belt our original planet before Mars?

What makes you think Mars was "our original planet before Earth?"
There seems to be a record of our evolution in fossils on the
crust of Earth... anyone who implies differently is being deceptive.



--
Phil Fraering [e-mail] 318/365-5418
Cthulthu for President! I'm tired of the lesser of two evils!
Home, Home on Lagrange, where the space debris always collects...
- Bill Higgins and Barry D. Gehm
Path: ns-mx!uunet!paladin.american.edu!auvm!ghadsal
From: [e-mail] (Guy Hadsall)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: ? Majestic Twelve ?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 13 Mar 92 17:18:19 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: The American University - University Computing Center
Lines: 4


What is it ?
Who is it ?
Why are people afraid of its utterance ?
Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!fuug!nntp.hut.fi!nntp!Juhana.Rasanen
From: [e-mail] (Juhana R{s{nen)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal,sci.skeptic,sci.space
Subject: Re: Mars Face / General Info.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 13 Mar 92 16:07:28 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
    <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Usenet pseudouser id)
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
Lines: 29
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4870 alt.paranormal:4631 sci.skeptic:21857 sci.space:27839
In-Reply-To: [e-mail]'s message of 13 Mar 92 12:07:32 GMT
Nntp-Posting-Host: vipunen.hut.fi

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Frank Stuart Brown) writes:

>   I find the subject of past life on Mars fascinating.
>   I pose the thoughts that:

    (text removed)

>       3. As the sun shrinks so the outer planets cool and
>          we must move nearer the sun.

    (text removed)

>   No flames please just genuine discussion.


Ok, I try not to be flamy.

Sun does not shrink. Sorry. In fact it will expand enourmously after
about 5 billion years and engulf all the inner planets, including
Earth. Nice try, anyhow.

   Thanks,
   Frank

    You're welcome,
            Juhana

--
     Quantum mechanics do it bit by bit
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!news.cs.indiana.edu!lynx!carina.unm.edu!ee3401cb
From: [e-mail] (Student Class Account)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: ? Majestic Twelve ?
Message-ID: <v=[e-mail]>
Date: 13 Mar 92 18:05:18 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
Lines: 720

In article <[e-mail]> Guy Hadsall <[e-mail]> writes:
>
>What is it ?
>Who is it ?
>Why are people afraid of its utterance ?

I found this in this newsgroup a few months ago.  I don't know if it is
true or total bunk.
I think it's good for a laugh.

                      OPERATION MAJORITY




        (C) - COPYRIGHT 1989 BY MILTON WILLIAM COOPER
                     ALL RIGHTS RESERVED

YOU HAVE MY PERMISSION TO USE SHORT QUOTES FROM THIS INFOR-
MATION IN PRESS RELEASES, PERIODICALS, AND SPEECHES.
INCLUSION IN ANY OTHER MEDIA REQUIRES MY EXPRESS WRITTEN
PERMISSION.




This file contains the absolute true information regarding
the alien presence on earth and the US Governments
involvement with the aliens.  This file contains only the
information as I saw it and only my information.  It does not
contain any information from any other source.

It was neccessary for me to issue the information previous to
this release in a manner which would deceive the Government
until someone was able to independently confirm my identity,
my employment, my service record, my intelligence background,
the identity of the person to which I gave the information to
in 1972, his acknowledgment of the information and when it
was given to him, that the information is correct, that I
have not seen him since 1974, and that I have not
communicated with him in any form since 1976.  This was
neccesary because this file is my death warrant if MJ-12
continues to operate in a manner consistant with its history.

All in the last paragraph has been independently verified by
2 different people who have no connection with each other.
I will only list one for obvious reasons.

                   Tony Pelham, Journalist
                Las Vegas Bullet, (Newspaper)
                       300 West Boston
                   Las Vegas, Nevada  89102

The original information that I first released was not much
different than what you will find here.  Only some names were
different and just enough (I hoped) to convince MJ-12 and
MAJI that I was not a threat long enough to have independent
verification of the facts before I risked death.  I wish to
make it absolutly clear that I do not consider myself a hero.
I believe that most of you would do the same thing if you
knew the truth.  I gave an oath that I would uphold and
protect the Constitution of the United States of America and
I take that oath very seriously.  I am doing no more now than
I did when I fought in Vietnam.  I am doing my duty.

Please make copies of this file and send it to your
Congressman, your Senator, the Attorney General of the United
States, and to the Supreme Court.  Send it also to everyone
you know.  Attach copies of the Bill English file and John
Lear's file.  Send anything else you may have which tends to
support the information.

I Milton William Cooper, 1311 S. Highland #205, Fullerton,
California, 92632, [phone], do solemnly swear that the
information contained in this file is true and correct to the
best of my knowledge.  I swear that I saw this information in
1972 in the performance of my duties as a member of the
Intelligence Briefing Team of the Commander In Chief of the
Pacific Fleet as a Petty Officer in the US Navy.  I swear
that I underwent hypnotic regression in order to make the
information as accurate as possible.  I swear that I can and
will take a lie detector test or any other test of any
reputable persons choosing in order to confirm this
information.  I swear that I can and will undergo hypnotic
regression conducted by any reputable and qualified Doctor of
any reputable persons choosing in order to confirm this
information.  I will not, however submit to any test or
hypnosis by anyone who is now or has ever been connected with
the Government in any capacity for obvious reasons.

The following a is brief listing of everything that I
personally saw and know from 1972 and does not contain any
input from any other source whatsoever.

MAJESTY was listed as the code word for the President of the
United States for communications concerning this information.

OPERATION MAJORITY is the name of the operation responsible
for every aspect, project, and consequence of alien presence
on earth.

GRUDGE  Contains 16 volumes of documented information
collected from the beginning of the United States
investigation of Unidentified Flying Objects (UFO's) and
Identified Alien Crafts (IAC).  The project was funded by CIA
confidential funds (non-appropriated) and money from the
illicit drug trade.  Participation in the illegal drug trade
was justified in that it would identify and eliminate the
weak elements of our society.  The purpose of project GRUDGE
was to collect all scientific, technological, medical and
intelligence information  from UFO/IAC sightings and contacts
with alien life forms.  This orderly file of collected
information has been used to advance the United States Space
Program.

MJ-12 is the name of the secret control group.  President
Eisenhower commissioned a secret society known as THE JASON
SOCIETY (JASON SCHOLARS) under the leadership of the Director
of Central Intelligence (Allen Welsh Dulles), Dr. Zbigniew
Brzezinski (President of the Trilateral Commission from 1973
until 1976), and Dr.  Henry Kissinger (leader of the
scientific effort), to sift through all the facts, evidence,
technology, lies and deception and find the truth of the
alien question.  The society was made up of 32 of the most
prominent men in the country and the top 12 members were
designated MJ-12.  MJ-12 has total control of everything.
They are designated by the code J-1, J-2, J-3, etc all the
way through the members of the Jason Society.  The director
of Central Intelligence was appointed J-1 and is the Director
of MJ-12.  MJ-12 is responsible only to the President.  MJ-12
runs most of the worlds illegal drug trade.  This was done to
hide funding and thus keep the secret from the Congress and
the people of the United States.  It was justified in that it
would identify and eliminate the weak elements of our
society.  The cost of funding the alien connected projects is
higher than anything you can imagine.  MJ-12 asasinated
President Kennedy when he informed them that he was going to
tell the public all the facts of the alien presence.  He was
killed by the Secret Service agent driving his car and it is
plainly visible in the film held from public view.  A secret
meeting place was constructed for MJ-12 in MARYLAND and it
was described as only accessible by air.  It contains full
living, recreational, and other facilitys for MJ-12 and the
JASON SOCIETY.  It is code named "THE COUNTRY CLUB".  The
land for "THE COUNTRY CLUB" was donated by the Rockefeller
family.  Only those with TOP SECRET/MAJIC clearance are
allowed to go there.

MAJI is the MAJORITY AGENCY FOR JOINT INTELLIGENCE.  All
information, disinformation, and intelligence is gathered and
evaluated by this agency.  This agency is responsible for all
disinformation and operates in conjunction with the CIA, NSA
the Defense Intelligence Agency, and the Office of Naval
Intelligence.  This is a very powerful organization and all
alien projects are under its control.  MAJI is responsible
only to MJ-12.

SIGMA is the project which first established communications
with the aliens and is still responsible for communications.

PLATO is the project responsible for Diplomatic relations
with the aliens.  This project secured a formal treaty
(illegal under the Constitution) with the aliens.  The terms
were that the aliens would give us technology and would not
interfere in our history.  In return we agreed to keep their
presence on earth a secret, not to interfere in any way with
thier actions, and to allow them to abduct humans and
animals.  The aliens agreed to furnish MJ-12 with a list of
abductees on a periodic basis.

MAJIC is the security classification and clearance of all
alien connected material, projects, and information.  MAJIC
means MAJI controlled.

AQUARIUS is a project which compiled the history of alien
presence and their interaction with Homo Sapiens upon this
planet for the last 25,000 years and culminating with the
Basque people who live in the mountainous country on the
border of France and Spain and the Syrians or Assyrians.

GARNET is the project responsible for control of all
information and documents regarding this subject and
accountability of the information and documents.

PLUTO is a project to evaluate all UFO/IAC information
pertaining to space technology.

POUNCE, this project was formed to recover all downed/crashed
craft and aliens.  This project provided cover stories and
operations to mask the true endeavor when neccessary.  Covers
which have been used:  crashed experimental aircraft,
construction, mining, etc.  this project has been successful.
This project is ongoing.

LUNA is the alien base on the far side of the Moon.  It was
seen and filmed by the Apollo Astronauts.  A base, a mining
operation using very large machines, and the very large alien
craft described in sighting reports as MOTHER SHIPS exist
there.

NRO is the National Recon Organization based at Fort Carson,
Colorado.  It is responsible for security for all alien or
alien craft connected projects.

DELTA is the designation for the specific arm of the NRO
which is especially trained and tasked with security of these
projects.

BLUE TEAM------THE FIRST PROJECT RESPONSIBLE FOR
               REACTION/RECOVERY OF DOWNED/CRASHED ALIEN
               CRAFT AND/OR ALIENS.  THIS WAS AN AIR FORCE
               MATERIAL COMMAND PROJECT.

SIGN-----------THE SECOND PROJECT RESPONSIBLE FOR COLLECTION
               OF INTELLIGENCE AND DETERMINING WHETHER ALIEN
               PRESENCE CONSTITUTED A THREAT TO THE NATIONAL
               SECURITY.  SIGN ABSORBED BLUE TEAM.  THIS WAS
               AN AIR FORCE/CIA PROJECT.

REDLIGHT-------MISSION WAS TO TEST FLY RECOVERED ALIEN CRAFT
               THIS PROJECT WAS POSTPONED AFTER EVERY ATTEMPT
               RESULTED IN DESTRUCTION OF THE CRAFT AND DEATH
               OF THE PILOTS.  THIS PROJECT WAS CARRIED OUT
               AT AREA 51 IN NEVADA (GROOM LAKE/DREAMLAND).
               PROJECT REDLIGHT WAS RESUMED IN 1972.  THIS
               PROJECT HAS BEEN PARTIALLY SUCCESSFUL.  UFO
               SIGHTINGS OF CRAFT ACCOMPANIED BY BLACK
               HELICOPTORS ARE PROJECT REDLIGHT ASSETS.  THIS
               PROJECT IS ONGOING AT AREA 51 IN NEVADA.

SNOWBIRD-------Established as a COVER for Project REDLIGHT.
               A flying saucer "TYPE" craft was built using
               conventional technology.  It was unvieled to
               the press and flown in public on several
               occassions.  The purpose was to explain
               accidental sightings or disclosures of
               REDLIGHT as having been the SNOWBIRD craft.
               This was a very successful disinformation
               operation.  This Project is only activated
               when needed.  It has not been used for many
               years.  This project is currently in mothballs
               until needed again.


BLUE BOOK------THIS WAS AN AIR FORCE UFO/ALIEN INTELLIGENCE
               COLLECTION AND DISINFORMATION PROJECT.  THIS
               PROJECT WAS TERMINATED AND ITS COLLECTED
               INFORMATION AND DUTIES WERE ABSORBED BY
               PROJECT AQUARIUS.  CLASSIFIED REPORT NAMED
               "GRUDGE/BLUE BOOK REPORT NO. 13" IS THE ONLY
               SIGNIFICANT INFORMATION DERIVED FROM THE
               PROJECT AND IS UNAVAILABLE TO THE PUBLIC.
               (FROM WHAT I READ FROM BILL ENGLISH IT SEEMS
               THAT HE REALLY SAW THIS REPORT AS HE DESCRIBES
               THE SAME INFORMATION THAT I SAW IN
               "GRUDGE/BLUE BOOK REPORT NO. 13.)

JOSHUA is a project to develop a low frequency pulsed sound
generating weapon.  It was said that this weapon would be
effective against the alien craft and beam weapons.

EXCALIBUR is a weapon to destroy the alien underground bases.
It is to be a missile capable of penetrating 1000 meters of
Tufa/hard packed soil such as that found in New Mexico with
no operational damage.  Missile appogee not to exceed 30,000
feet AGL and impact must not deviate in excess of 50 meters
from designated target.  The device will carry a 1 megaton
nuclear warhead.

ALIENS, there were 4 types of aliens mentioned in the papers.
A LARGE NOSED GREY with whom we have the treaty, the GREY
reported in abductee cases that works for the LARGE NOSED
GREY, a blond human like type described as the NORDIC, a red
haired human like type called the ORANGE.  The homes of the
aliens were described as being a star in the Constellation of
Orion, Barnards star, and Zeta Riticuli 1&2.  I cannot
remember even under hypnosis which alien belongs to which
star.

EBE is the name or designation given to the live alien
captured at the 1949 Roswell crash.  He died in captivity.

KRLL OR KRLLL OR CRLL OR CRLLL pronounced Crill or Krill was
the hostage left with us at the first Holloman landing as a
pledge that the aliens would carry out their part of the
basic agreement reached during that meeting.  KRLL gave us
the foundation of the yellow book which was completed by the
guests at a later date.  KRLL became sick and was nursed by
Dr. G. Mendoza who became the expert on alien biology and
medicine.  KRLL later died (I'm not to sure of his death as
this memory may be a carry over from EBE).  His information
was diseminated under the pseudonym O.H.  Cril or Crill.
KRLL became the Alien Ambassador to the United States.

GUESTS were aliens exchanged for humans who gave us the
balance of the yellow book.  At the time I saw the
information there were only 3 left alive.  They were called
(ALF's) Alien Life Forms.

RELIGION  The aliens claim to have created Homo Sapiens
through hybridization.  The papers said that RH- blood was
proof of this.  They further claimed to have created all of
our major religions.  They showed a hologram of the
crucifixion of Christ which the Government filmed.  They
claim that Jesus was created by them.

ALIEN BASES exist in the four corners area of Utah, Colorado,
New Mexico, and Arizona.  Six bases were described in the
1972 papers, all on indian reservations and all in the four
corners area.  The base near Dulce was one of them.

MURDER  The documents stated that many military and
government personnel had been terminated (murdered without
due process of law) when they had attempted to reveal the
secret.

CRAFT RECOVERYS  The documents stated that many craft had
been recovered.  The early ones from Roswell, Aztec, Roswell
again, Texas, Mexico, and other places.

GENERAL DOOLITTLE made a prediction that one day we would
have to reckon with the aliens and the document stated that
it appeared that General Doolittle was correct.

ABDUCTIONS were occurring long before 1972.  The document
stated that humans and animals were being abducted and or
mutilated.  Many vanished without a trace.  They were taking
sperm and ova samples, tissue, performed surgical operations,
implanted a spherical device 40 to 80 microns in size near
the optic nerve in the brain and all attempts to remove it
resulted in the death of the patient.  The document estimated
that 1 in every 40 people had been implanted.  This implant
was said to give the aliens total control of that human.

CONTINGENCY PLAN SHOULD THE INFORMATION BECOME PUBLIC OR
SHOULD THE ALIENS ATTEMPT TAKEOVER.
This plan called for a public announcement that a terrorist
group had entered the United States with an Atomic weapon.
It would be announced that the terrorists planned to detonate
the weapon in a major city.  Martial Law would be declared
and all persons with implants would be rounded up along with
all dissidents and would be placed into concentration camps.
The press, redio, and TV would be nationalized and
controlled.  Anyone attempting to resist would be arrested or
killed.

CONTINGENCY PLAN TO CONTAIN OR DELAY RELEASE OF INFORMATION
This plan called for the use of MAJESTIC TWELVE as a
disinformation ploy to delay and confuse the release of
information should anyone get close to the truth.  It was
selected because of the similarity of spelling and the
similarity to MJ-12.  It was designed to confuse memory and
to result in a fruitless search for material which did not
exist.

I have information now (its about time) that the existance of
Project Joshua has been confirmed.  The weapon was developed
and assembled at Ling Tempco Vought in Anahiem California.
It was described to me as being able to totally level ANY man
made structure from a distance of 2 miles.  It was tested at
White Sands Proving grounds.  It was developed between 1975
and 1978.  It is a long horn shaped device connected to a
computer and amplifiers.  LTV has since moved from its
Anaheim facility which was near the Grand Hotel across the
street from Disneyland.

I have also confirmed the existance of an alien craft at a
hanger at Edwards AFB.  The hanger is at North Base.  It has
been guarded by NON Edwards personnel (NRO - DELTA).  The
guards had a badge that was red with a black triangle on the
face of the badge.  No one was allowed near the hanger
without the badge.  These people are no longer guarding the
hanger.  The Edwards security force are instructed to check
the hanger each hour and report status.  The hanger is locked
and no one is allowed inside.  Edwards security personnel
have been instructed never to enter the hanger even if it has
been broken into.  I have also confirmed the esistance of
alien material at a hanger at Edwards AFB.
                  .
                . . .                   .   .
                 ...                     . .
               O  .  O                    .
                 ...                     ...
                . . .                   . . .
              .   .   .                .  .  .
             .    .    .              .   .   .
            .............            .    .    .
         On craft & uniforms    Marks bases and landing sites
This is one of the insignia that is on the alien craft.  It
is called a TRILATERAL insignia.  I do not know what it
means.  It is in GRUDGE/BLUE BOOK REPORT NO. 13 and my
sources confirm that this is the alien flag so to speak.


MALEVOLENT ALIEN LIFE FORM (ALF) DESCRIPTION


The typical MALEVOLENT (ALF) as represented thus far can be
described as follows:

          1.  Between 3 to 5 ft. in hieght.

          2.  Erect standing biped.  Long thin legs.

          3.  Small build (thin).

          4.  Head larger than normal (to human proportions).

          5.  Absence of auditory lobes (external earlobes).

          6.  Absence of body hair.

          7.  Large, tear shaped eyes, opacque black with
              veretical slit pupils (cats eye).

          8.  Eyes slanted approx 35 degrees

          9.  Small straight mouth, thin lips.

         10.  Arms resemble praying mantis (normal attitude).
              Arms reach to knees (extended).

         11.  Long hands (small palm)

         12.  Claw like fingers, two short, two long.
              (webbed)

         13.  Tough, gray skin, reptile like in texture.

         14.  Small feet, 4 small claw like toes.

         15.  Some Organs are similar to humans but developed
              in a different evolutionary process.

         16.  The most significant finding is that they have
              a Nonfunctioning digestive system and two
              separate brains.  Digestive system in those
              examined were atrophied.  Conforms to absence
              of provisions in recovered craft.  (Prelininary
              finding)

         17.  Movement is deliberate, slow, precise.

         18.  (Secondary finding after study)
              Alien subsistance requires that they must have
              human blood and other human biological
              substances to survive.  In extreme
              circumstances they can subsist on other animal
              fluids.  Food is converted to energy by
              chlorophyl through photosynthesis and waste
              products are excreted through skin.  (Did they
              evolve from plant life?  Not known at this
              time.)  These creatures possess two separate
              brains separated by mid cranial lateral bone
              partition (anterior brain - posterior brain)
              with no apparent connection between the two.



GUEST-----------ALIEN LIFE FORM HELD PRISONER IN AN AREA
                KNOWN AS THE ICE CAVE AT LOS ALAMOS, NEW
                MEXICO.  THERE WERE ORIGINALLY 16 CAPTIVE
                ALIENS HELD AT THIS LOCATION. 15 HAVE DIED.
                THE ALIEN "GUESTS" FURNISHED EXTENSIVE
                INFORMATION ON THE ALIENS AND THEIR HISTORY
                WHICH IS KNOWN AS THE "YELLOW BOOK". THESE
                "GUESTS" WERE INDEED FED ICE CREAM AND LIKED
                STRAWBERRY ABOVE ALL OTHER FLAVORS. THESE
                ALIENS WERE HELD IN EXCHANGE FOR 16 HUMANS
                WHO BECAME "GUESTS" OF THE ALIENS NO
                INFORMATION REGARDING THE HUMAN "GUESTS" IS
                AVAILABLE FROM ANY SOURCE. THE "GUESTS" ENJOY
                MUSIC OF A FAR EASTERN NATURE AND ESPECIALLY
                ENJOY MUSIC WHICH ORIGINATES FROM TIBET.
                THEY POSSESS AN EXTREMELY HIGH IQ WHICH IS IN
                THE 200 RANGE.  THEY HAVE A TENDENCY TO LIE.

RELIGION--------THE ALIENS CLAIM THAT MAN IS A HYBRID CREATED
                BY THEM.  THEY CLAIM THAT ALL RELIGION WAS
                CREATED BY THEM TO HASTEN THE FORMATION OF A
                CIVILIZED CULTURE AND TO CONTROL THE HUMAN
                RACE. THEY CLAIM THAT JESUS WAS A PRODUCT OF
                THEIR EFFORTS.  THE ALIENS HAVE FURNISHED
                PROOF OF THESE CLAIMS AND HAVE A DEVICE THAT
                ALLOWS THEM TO SHOW AUDIBLY AND VISUALLY ANY
                PART OF HISTORY THAT THEY OR WE WISH TO SEE.
                THEY CLAIM THAT RH- BLOOD IS THE PROOF OF
                HYBRIDIZATION AND OUR OWN SCIENCE TENDS TO
                BEAR OUT THEIR CLAIM.







This file contains the;  (1) My reason for releasing this
information to the public,  (2) My credentials,  (3) The
existance of one other person to whom I gave the information
in 1972 in anticipation of one day needing to validate the
information.

(1)  I have 2 reasons for releasing this information at this
time.  (A)  When I first saw the information I was sure that
the government would handle the situation and not allow the
people to be abducted, injured, or just disappear.  My belief
in the government has proven false.  Not only has it not been
handled but the situation has deteriorated and the incidents
have increased worldwide.  What has happened is against the
Constitution of the United States of America which I have
sworn to uphold and protect.  What is happening is against
every law in every state.  What is happening violates the
human rights of every citizen of the world.  It could happen
to any member or members of my family or your family at any
time.  I am a loyal american and have never divulged any of
my countrys secrets and except for this one I never will.  I
do not believe that revealing this secret is against the law
as the secret itself violates every law that has ever been
written.  Senator Barry Goldwater was the Chairman of the
Senate Commitee which aproved funds for the CIA and has
stated publicly that he has no knowledge of any of this.
That means and it is a fact that the Congress is ignorant of
what is going on.  In fact I believe that it is my duty to
expose it as thoroughly and as quickly as possible.  I only
regret that I have waited so long.  I waited because I
believed so much in our system of government.  THE UNITED
STATES GOVERNMENT HAS BETRAYED ALL OF US.  (B) In my efforts
to get the information out it became obvious that soon the
government would discover what I am doing and my life would
be in danger.  I believe that my life is now in danger and
the only way to protect myself is to go public with the
information.  I realize that the information is hard to
swallow and that many people will not believe it.  I also
realize that I have exposed myself to ridicule.  So be it.
If I am prosecuted or harmed in any way you all will know
that the information is correct.  If I suddenly disappear you
will all know that the information is correct.

(2)  I am the son of an Air Force officer and was reared on
Air Force bases all over the world.  My father was a pilot.
As a child I repeatedly overheard pilots and airmen discuss
strange stories involving UFO's, Foo Fighters, strange
crashes of craft "not from here", and other subjects that
were exciting to me at the time.  I graduated from High
School in Japan and shortly there-after joined the Air Force.
I finished basic at Lackland Air Force Base and was assigned
to the Strategic Air Command.  I was an Aircraft and Missile
Pneudraulic Technician.  During my training instructors would
regale us with tales of lonely nights spent on flight lines,
alert pads, and missile silos.  They told of strange alien
craft that would come down and paralyse the men on station
and then remove the warhead from the missile and disappear at
fantastic speed.  I met a sargeant who told me that he was
part of a team that transported such a large crashed disk
that it could only be moved at night on back roads and fences
and poles had to be torn down and replaced as the convoy
passed.  I listened to all these stories and wondered what
was going on but didn't really believe them.  I was
discharged from the Air Force in 1965.  I was very
adventurous at the time and joined the navy in December of
1965.  I volunteered for submarines and was assigned to the
USS Tiru (SS-416) at Pearl Harbor, Hawaii.  On a cruise to
the Portland Seattle area, while on lookout a UFO the size of
an Aircraft carrier rose up out of the water and disappeared
into the clouds while we were on the surface and I was the
Port lookout.  It descended back down into the water and rose
back up into the clouds again several times.  It was
witnessed by myself, The Starboard lookout, The Officer of
the deck, The Captain, and the Chief Quartermaster who took
pictures.  We were told not to discuss it with anyone ever.
Upon docking at Pearl upon our return a man in plain clothes
came aboard and talked to each of us with only the Captain
present.  He identified himself as an Intelligence Officer
(ONI) and asked me what I saw.  I began to tell him and he
yelled at me to stop and then he again asked me what I saw.
I told him that I had not seen anything and he smiled at me
and told me I was a very good sailor.  He told me that was
the right answer and dismissed me.  I soon grew tired of the
cramped quarters of a Submarine and de-volunteered.  The rest
of my history is as follows.

My primary military occupation is Quartermaster (Navigation)
My secondary NEC is 9545 (Internal Security)

Uss Tombigbee (AOG-11)  Pacific and Vietnam sea duty.

Camp Carter, Vietnam    Naval Security and Intelligence
                        Danang Harbor Patrol (gather
                        intelligence and secure the harbor)
                        and Cua Viet (DMZ) river patrol duty
                        (gather intelligence and secure the
                        river)

USS Charles Berry DE-1035  Pacific sea duty

CINCPACFLT STAFF        Commander in Chief of the Pacific
                        Fleet Staff - OPSTAT reporting and
                        Naval Intelligence Briefing Team
                        Petty Officer of the Watch in the
                        Command Center

USS Oriskany CVA-35     Pacific sea duty.

Honorable Discharge     December 1975  Rank E-6

Since leaving the navy I have worked at several companies
engaged in work for the government or the intelligence
community.  Some of this work involved training foreign
military personnel.  I have also obtained a college degree in
photography.  This is a field I have long been interested in.

I am not now connected with the government or the
intelligence community except for friends that I have made
over the years.  Most recently I have been involved in
management of civilian training facilities.

Admissions Representative
Airco technical Institute
Long Beach, California

Admissions Representative
Adelphi Business College
Anaheim, California

Executive Director
Adelphi Business College
Van Nuys, California

Marketing Executive
United Education & Software
Encino, California

Executive Director
Pacific Coast Technical Institute
Anaheim, California

Executive Director
Currently   The institute where I am presently employed is
known to 3 of you and I do not wish it to be disclosed as the
release of this information could have adverse affects upon
my employment.




(3)  In 1972 I related this information to one other person
for self protection and so that the information could be
verified at some latter date should the government not handle
the situation.  I gave him the information on the eve of my
wedding.  The last person to person contact I had with him
was in 1974.  The last contact of ANY kind was in 1976 or
1977 by phone.  I have not seen him, written to him, phoned
him, or had any contact with him at all since that time.  I
maintained this distance to prevent any accusation of
collusion or hoax should it ever be neccessary to release the
information.  I also did it for his protection so that he
would not be involved if the government should decide to harm
me before the information could be released.  I gave him a
copy of the information in the form of a copy of an original
document.  I retained the other copy but mine was destroyed
in a storage fire.  He can and will verify the information to
the right person with the right code (which we agreed upon)
to release it.  3 of you have his name, the last place he
lived in 1976, and the code.  I will not contact him until
the information is verified.  He can validate my intelligence
background and the information.  He can state all of this
truthfully and because of our seperation over the years will
be able to pass any lie detector test to prove this is not a
hoax.  I would also be able to pass the same test or any
other test, sodium pentathol etc.

I have also received a call from a man named Christopher who
called from an area code in Maryland.  By his conversation
with me on the phone I know that he has also seen the
Majority information and the Grudge document.  I also know
that he is a member of Compuserve.  That is all I know about
him.  I left out a graphic on the reconstructed document that
I posted in my MAJIC file and he questioned the ommission.
It is a minor detail that I did not think important but he
spotted it.  The only way he could have known that the
graphic was missing would be that he has seen it himself.
The graphic was 2 lightning bolts which strike at the bottom
of the finned rocket which is enclosed in the circle.  Since
I could not put graphics in the document I only included a
short description.

I tested my father once by relating that I had seen
information while in the navy that the Government had
recovered UFO's which had crashed.  I did this to guage his
reaction because I knew that at one time when I was very
little he was the radar Officer at White Sands Proving
Ground.  He gave me a very knowing look and advised me not to
talk about it.  I have never discussed the matter with him
since.

HISTORY WILL BE THE JUDGE OF ME AND THIS INFORMATION AND I
HAVE NO FEAR OF THAT JUDGEMENT.  I SWEAR THAT THIS
INFORMATION IS TRUE AND CORRECT TO THE BEST OF MY KNOWLEDGE.

I wish to thank all those people who have aided me in
reaching this point and for their patience and understanding.
I owe you all more than I can ever repay.

Finally, it does not matter who is right and who is wrong or
if a project name is in the wrong place.  It does not matter
who is working for who or what is really what.  It should be
obvious by now that something sinister and terribly wrong is
going on involving the government and the UFO phenomenon.  We
must all band together and expose it now.  I have done my
part in the best manner that I could.  I can add nothing else
except my testimony in Congress or a court of law that what I
saw and have written in this file is true and that I saw it.

COME FORWARD NOW IF YOU HAVE ANY INFORMATION AT ALL WHICH
WILL SUBSTANTIATE THIS INFORMATION.  THIS MAY BE THE ONLY
CHANCE TO EXPOSE THIS TERRIBLE SITUATION.  IF I FAIL YOU ALL
FAIL.

Milton William Cooper  (Bill)

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From: [e-mail] (Achorn Brett W)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptics,sci.space
Subject: Re: past life on Mars
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 13 Mar 92 17:29:21 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Achorn Brett W)
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Frank Stuart Brown) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Leping N Zha) writes:
>>  < reference deleted >
>
>I find the subject of past life on Mars fascinating.
>I pose the thoughts that:
>    1. Millions of years ago Mars was like earth.

   Maybe billions of years ago, Mars was close to what Earth used to be.
But with the atmosphere being ionized and blown off, the water
evaporating or freezing, and extreme temperature variations,
it's hard to imagine an ecosystem under those conditions that would
allow life to get very far.

>    2. At the same time earth was the equivalent of
>       what venus is now.

   Earth was never like how Venus is now.  Venus is trapped in a very
nasty greenhouse effect.  If you think we have acid rain problems now,
it doesn't hold a candle to what Venus has.

>    3. As the sun shrinks so the outer planets cool and
>       we must move nearer the sun.

   The sun will expand first and almost certainly fry Mercury, besides
giving Earth the hotfoot.

>    4. Venus will eventually be habitable as earth dies.

   Only if Venus' greenhouse effect problems can be brought under
control, the sulfuric acid oceans cleaned up, and water, oxygen, nitrogen,
and basically an entire ecosystem introduced.

>    5. Was the asteroid belt our original planet before Mars?

   Humans just haven't been around long enough to be interplanetary
nomads, even if some other mysterious force has been carting us around.
On the planetary scale, we just learned how to stand up this morning.

>
>No flames please just genuine discussion.
>
>Thanks,
>Frank
>--
>"On the plains of hesitation lie the bones of countless millions, of those
>who stopped to view their success, and while resting - died!"
><[e-mail]>  ||  !mcsun!ukc!stc!fsb
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------

   I think we'd have better luck
    a) trying to fix Earth
    b) terraforming Titan (in our free time)

--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"'Twas brillig, and the slithy toves / Did gyre and gimble in the wabe: ..."
    _The_Jabberwocky_, Lewis Carrol
"So much for the user's manual."  - Alice             # [e-mail] #
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From: [e-mail] (Dave Jones)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal,sci.skeptic,sci.space
Subject: Re: Mars Face / General Info.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 13 Mar 92 18:39:52 GMT
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Frank Stuart Brown) writes:
>
>I find the subject of past life on Mars fascinating.
>I pose the thoughts that:
>    1. Millions of years ago Mars was like earth.
More like billions of years ago.

>    2. At the same time earth was the equivalent of
>       what venus is now.
Only in surface temperature (maybe).  Venus has lost most of its
water.

>    3. As the sun shrinks so the outer planets cool and
>       we must move nearer the sun.
Again, the billion-year timescale, not millions at all.  Which doesn't
rule out solar variation altogether......

>    4. Venus will eventually be habitable as earth dies.
Not without a couple teratons of water dumped into the atmosphere.

>    5. Was the asteroid belt our original planet before Mars?
>
Is there enough mass in the belt to ever have constituted a planet?
I doubt it.  The belt is there because the combined gravitational
effects of Jupiter and Mars prevented coalescence of the asteroids.
Its been calculated that asteroid motions become chaotic, resulting in
ejection of matter from the belt.

>No flames please just genuine discussion.
>
OK so far?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Boy, n.:
    A noise with dirt on it.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

--
||Dave Jones ([e-mail])    ||--------I'm thinking-----------|
||Eastman Kodak Co. Rochester, NY 14653-7300|---------of something----------|
|| Wanted: a Unix manual that              ||-----------to put--------------|
|| tells me what I need to know            ||-------------here--------------|
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From: [e-mail] (David Tiberio)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Circles in the fields
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 13 Mar 92 18:46:01 GMT
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In article <3NRK+L=@irie.ais.org> [e-mail] (David Daniels) writes:
>
>I remember seeing on TV, a segment of a show, which had two farmers (I
>bleave) who admited to creating the circles. Then, later in the show, or on
>a different show (can't recall) they had pretty solid proof that humans
>could not have made these circles.. Does anyone know what any of this proof
>was? The topic came up the other day and I can't quite remember anything
>that they had said on the show..
>

    1) The soil becomes dehydrated, obviously from a large amount
    of heat used in creating the crop circle. The soil seems to lose
    it's ability to absorb water...when placed in water it does not
    turn into mud. I have seen this on TV in the early 80's when
    they discussed crop circles formed in the US.

    2) Humans are not perfect. They do not make things perfectly unless
    they put in lots of money, technology, planning, and effort. A
    farmer cannot make a crop circle as perfect as they are. British
    troops tried to but failed to make a perfect circle, although I guess
    if they were thousands of miles away it might make a perfect dot.

    3) The stalks are never broken; they are merely arced over. When
    humans tried to make crop circles, the stalks ALWAYS break.

    4) The stalks continue to grow.

    5) People have held stake outs, waiting for circles to be frormed.
    They claim that some circles are formed within 20 seconds of no-one
    looking at the site, usually at night or in a fog patch. No noises
    are heard. Observers are usually camped out on a hill top.

    6) Numerous crop circles have appeared all over the world,
    concentrating on rural areas. All circles have the same traits as
    far as the soil is concerned. In some cases grass dies. This
    is evidence that there are few hoaxes. If all crop circles are
    hoaxes, then the perpetrator would have to:

        a) Have lots of money

        b) Have access to tarnsportation around the world,
        mostly North America and Western Europe

        c) Have advanced technology

        d) Use heat or a device which produces lots of excess heat
        to bend the stalks

        e) Have the intent of fooling people on a huge, massive
        scale

        f) Have the ability to keep hidden while forming circles

        g) Have the ability to plan designs that are complicated
        to design from the ground by humans...humans would make
        mistakes. Some crop circles have four circles of identicle
        sizes. Some have toruses. Some are symmetrical. Humans
        would make mistakes unless all parts were marked out by
        corner posts, line markings, etc.

        h) Last of all, with the amount of effort that goes into
        this, there would have to be lots of human participants.
        One farmer cannot make 10 crop circles on his farm, let alone
        100 farmers...


    The evidence is there. The message is clear to me; however, I have
no idea what any of them mean. Some people may figure out what they mean,
and that will be the day...


--
           David Tiberio  SUNY Stony Brook 2-3662  AMIGA  DDD-MEN
  "Why do we have to go and take the same each day. Life is it what it is."
         People don't change. You just get to know them better. -DT
        Liverpool, New York...soon to be in 3D...starting with Heid's
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From: [e-mail] (Richard Ottolini)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptics,sci.space
Subject: Re: past life on Mars
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 13 Mar 92 20:05:30 GMT
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The arguments for life on Mars are
(1) Life on earth seemed to start very early.  There are biomarkers in earth's
oldest rocks 3.9 GY.
(2) Mars seems to have had dense enough air or water to cause the erosional
features seen there.

But we won't know until we go back with more and better robots (which looks
unlikely the next couple of decades).
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From: [e-mail] (CSYSPCN)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Kuwait poodle profile
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
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Has anyone else noticed how much the photomicograph of a dust
partical from the Kuwait oil fires published on p159 of the
March 7'th Science News resembles a poodle?

Is this evidence of LITTLE green men?
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From: [e-mail] (Brian 'Rev P-K' Siano)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Kuwait poodle profile
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 14 Mar 92 23:31:06 GMT
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[e-mail] (CSYSPCN) writes:

> Has anyone else noticed how much the photomicograph of a dust
> partical from the Kuwait oil fires published on p159 of the
> March 7'th Science News resembles a poodle?
>
> Is this evidence of LITTLE green men?

No, it just means that Zsa Zsa Gabor is really the Anti-Earth-Mother.

Rev. P-K--- "And her sister Eva clubs BABY SEALS to death for her WARDROBE."

Brian "Rev. P-K" Siano
[e-mail]
Organizer of the Delaware Valley Skeptics (though opinions posted are my own,
and not representative).
"Not only does Bush have a depression on his hands, now he's got this self
pitying, pathologically lying pornofreak on the Supreme Court." -- Robert Bly,
in conversation with Deborah Tannen.
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Info on Ummits
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 15 Mar 92 17:34:07 GMT
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In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Patrick galley) writes:
>
> I've read several month ago some article in this newsgroup about the
> Ummits and the J.P. Petit's book.
> I would like to know if someone have ever heard something about others
> group ....of peoples who have been contacted by the Ummits than in Spanien.
> I woul to know if someone have other information source about this subject
> and and what is the credibility rate of this subject.
>
> thanks .
>                                        Patrick
>
> Patrick Galley
> Student at the Engineering School of Geneva
> [e-mail]
>
> Please , could you send me your answer directly by e-mail or trough
> sci.skeptic, because I can't access to alt.alien.visitors easily.

I dont know anything about this.
Path: ns-mx!uunet!stanford.edu!apple!netcomsv!mork!noring
From: [e-mail] (Jon Noring)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy
Subject: Found this over in sci.physics
Summary: From the "What's New" of 13 March, 1992;  periodically posted to sci.physics
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 13 Mar 92 23:17:59 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)
Lines: 43
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4879 alt.conspiracy:13109

>WHAT'S NEW, Friday, 13 March 1992                  Washington, DC
>
>..... stuff deleted to save space...
>
>2. THERE IS AN URGENT NEED TO REDIRECT U.S. WEAPONS SCIENTISTS as
>well. In Los Alamos on 4 Feb 1992, one speaker called for a fleet
>of 1200 powerful new missiles to be made ready and armed with the
>world's entire arsenal of nuclear warheads!  And Edward Teller
>urged development of a superbomb, 10,000 times more powerful than
>the 65 megaton monster the Soviets exploded in 1960!  Lowell Wood
>became so excited he could not contain himself; from the back of
>the auditorium he shouted "Nukes forever!"  The enemy?  A killer
>comet.  One might be discovered any day, headed for a collision
>with Earth.  Those who had defended the free world from the evil
>empire, far from becoming irrelevant, would now save Earth from
>cosmic disaster.  Congress directed NASA to conduct workshops on
>both detection (WN 6 Mar 92) and interception of near-Earth
>objects.  The organizers of the Los Alamos interception workshop
>regretted that the press had been mistakenly barred.


Though I'm skeptical (but open-minded) of the claims that there is a
killer meteor/planet/comet/ufo/? headed this way, I thought I'd post
this here since this part of the article contains a lot of interesting
stuff that conspiracy buffs can mull over and discuss.  It has all the
buzz words:  super bomb, Teller, Los Alamos, Collision of comets w/earth,
press was 'mistakenly' barred, etc., etc.

Sounds interesting but somewhat uncharacteristic for being in the
"What's New" over in sci.physics.  Is this a hoax?

Jon Noring

--
=============================================================================
| Jon Noring          | [e-mail] | "The dogs bark, but the  |
| JKN International   | IP    : 192.100.81.100   |  caravan moves on."      |
| 1312 Carlton Place  | Phone : [phone]   | "Pack your lunch, sit in |
| Livermore, CA 94550 | V-Mail: [phone]   |  the bushes, and watch." |
=============================================================================
"If you make $50,000 today, you have the same buying power as the average
coal miner did in 1949, adjusted for taxes and inflation," John Sestina,
nationally recognized Certified Financial Planner;  quoted in 1987.
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: test
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 15 Mar 92 19:17:16 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: Social Science Computing Laboratory
Lines: 1

this is a test
Path: ns-mx!uunet!usc!rpi!uwm.edu!rutgers!att!news.cs.indiana.edu!lynx!carina.unm.edu!smeagol
From: [e-mail] (Karl P.)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: ? Majestic Twelve ?
Message-ID: <0w6ha![e-mail]>
Date: 15 Mar 92 06:25:23 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
Lines: 20

In article <[e-mail]> Guy Hadsall <[e-mail]> writes:
>
>What is it ?
>Who is it ?
>Why are people afraid of its utterance ?

     For GOD'S sake, Don't ask!  I found out and then was later contacted by
 some very stern-looki...mph!







--
?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
?   [e-mail]     ? Ever since the house burned down, I have a ?
?    Global Village Idiot      ? have a much better view of the moon. -Anon.?
?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!ames!apple!netcomsv!mork!payner
From: [e-mail] (Rich Payne)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: test
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 15 Mar 92 23:03:45 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)
Lines: 7

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>this is a test

in case of an actual post, you would be directed to the emergency action
newsgroup, alt.emergency.info.    :^)

we now return you to your regularly scheduled posting
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!rutgers!ub!dsinc!pitt.edu!gvls1!tredysvr!cellar!revpk
From: [e-mail] (Brian 'Rev P-K' Siano)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: ? Majestic Twelve ?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 14 Mar 92 17:16:23 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (The Cellar BBS)
Organization: The Cellar BBS and public access system
Lines: 17

[e-mail] (Guy Hadsall) writes:

>
> What is it ?
> Who is it ?
> Why are people afraid of its utterance ?

        Oh, NO! He SAID it! Jesus Mother! AAAAGGGHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!


Brian "Rev. P-K" Siano
[e-mail]
Organizer of the Delaware Valley Skeptics (though opinions posted are my own,
and not representative).
"Not only does Bush have a depression on his hands, now he's got this self
pitying, pathologically lying pornofreak on the Supreme Court." -- Robert Bly,
in conversation with Deborah Tannen.
Path: ns-mx!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!utgpu!cunews!wcstom
From: [e-mail] (Tom Hamill)
Newsgroups: alt.postmodern,alt.religion.kibology,alt.sex,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: La, la, la...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 15 Mar 92 07:53:33 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: tom hamill
Followup-To: alt.postmodern,alt.religion.kibology,alt.sex,alt.alien.visitors
Organization: Carleton University, Ottawa, Canada
Lines: 26
Xref: ns-mx alt.postmodern:2336 alt.religion.kibology:1173 alt.sex:58733 alt.alien.visitors:4884

In article [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>In article [e-mail] (Paul D Evans) writes:
>>In article [e-mail] (Chris Colby) writes:
>>> In article [e-mail] (Lawrence C. Foard) writes:
>>> >In article [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>>
>>> >>    GEE, I'M SURE GLAD THAT .SIGNATURE VIRUSES ARE PASSE.
>>>
>>> >They will just mutate to get around it!
>>>
>>> >Evolution is god!
>>> Sanitation is fraud:
>>Sandinistas ate Maude.
>Santa Claus baits God.
>Satan Claws Bates Dog!  Film At Eleven!
Satin draws mates bod.

---tom

l~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~l
l      CRUSH---CompassionRespectUnderstandingSelfHonesty---CRUSH      l
l         How could you have ever lived your life without it?         l
l               Join Now, Apply Within.  Spread the word.             l
l_________________________         ---me, trying to save the world,   l
l [e-mail] l                         from itself.       l
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.unomaha.edu!news
From: [e-mail] (Mark)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: ? Majestic Twelve ?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 14 Mar 92 19:21:21 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (UNO Network News Server)
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Lines: 32
In-Reply-To: [e-mail]'s message of 14 Mar 92 04: 34:15 GMT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.11

In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:

> In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Guy Hadsall) writes:
> >
> > What is it ?
> > Who is it ?
> > Why are people afraid of its utterance ?
>
>
> You must mean the MJ twelve. these guys are actual descendants of the
> star people from the planet Marij-juana from the horsehead galaxy.
> They brought an evil plant with them in hopes of destroying all
> earth's inhabitants by enticing us to consume this plant internally
> for a good time.
> Government studies show that it shrinks the brain, and the consumers
> of this most vile plant go into fits of inaction.
> The US government fell for it at first, and actually promoted the plants'
> growth and use during WWII, However...

Yes, remember Judge Ginsburg admiting he smoked some and then he
mysteriously lost the Supreme court nomination..... spooky.

> The government caught on to this(goodness in time) before too many
> of earth's inhabitants got hooked into using it's vileness. This
> plant is ILLEGAL now to use or grow. The MJ twelve are furious and
> making an attempt to get it legalized by the governments of the world.
> Our government is trying to make these other countries ban the plant
> for their own good, even if they are not aware of its evil origins.
> Any topics concerning MJ twelve are very hush-hush. Best not to bring
> it up again.
>
> I'm taking a risk, but you asked. Now no more!
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!casbah.acns.nwu.edu!uicvm.uic.edu!u37460
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.postmodern,alt.religion.kibology,alt.sex,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: La, la, la...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 15 Mar 92 22:19:12 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
 <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
 <[e-mail]>
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Lines: 25
Xref: ns-mx alt.postmodern:2337 alt.religion.kibology:1174 alt.sex:58737 alt.alien.visitors:4886

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail]
(Tom Hamill) says:
>
>In article [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>In article [e-mail] (Paul D Evans) writes:
>>>In article [e-mail] (Chris Colby) writes:
>>>> In article [e-mail] (Lawrence C. Foard) writes:
>>>> >In article [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>>>
>>>> >>  GEE, I'M SURE GLAD THAT .SIGNATURE VIRUSES ARE PASSE.
>>>>
>>>> >They will just mutate to get around it!
>>>>
>>>> >Evolution is god!
>>>> Sanitation is fraud:
>>>Sandinistas ate Maude.
>>Santa Claus baits God.
>>Satan Claws Bates Dog!  Film At Eleven!
>Satin draws mates bod.
I sat in Ward's tame knob.
* RRRR     A    V     V  EEEEE  is life.  Ethan Haslett    DJ Crust    *
* R   R   A A   V     V  E      is life.  Bitnet:U37460@UICVM          *
* RRRR   AAAAA   V   V   EEEE   is life.  InterNet:                    *
* R  R   A   A    V V    E      is life.  [e-mail]         *
* R   R  A   A     V     EEEEE  is life.  [e-mail]   *
Path: ns-mx!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!rutgers!att!cbnewse!cbnewsd!press2
From: [e-mail] (barry.o.olson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: ? Majestic Twelve ?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 14 Mar 92 04:34:15 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
Lines: 26

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Guy Hadsall) writes:
>
> What is it ?
> Who is it ?
> Why are people afraid of its utterance ?


You must mean the MJ twelve. these guys are actual descendants of the
star people from the planet Marij-juana from the horsehead galaxy.
They brought an evil plant with them in hopes of destroying all
earth's inhabitants by enticing us to consume this plant internally
for a good time.
Government studies show that it shrinks the brain, and the consumers
of this most vile plant go into fits of inaction.
The US government fell for it at first, and actually promoted the plants'
growth and use during WWII, However...
The government caught on to this(goodness in time) before too many
of earth's inhabitants got hooked into using it's vileness. This
plant is ILLEGAL now to use or grow. The MJ twelve are furious and
making an attempt to get it legalized by the governments of the world.
Our government is trying to make these other countries ban the plant
for their own good, even if they are not aware of its evil origins.
Any topics concerning MJ twelve are very hush-hush. Best not to bring
it up again.

I'm taking a risk, but you asked. Now no more!
Path: ns-mx!uunet!munnari.oz.au!bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au!uqcspe!cs.uq.oz.au!rhys
From: [e-mail] (Rhys Weatherley)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: The Talmud as Given by Judas Iscariot
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 14 Mar 92 04:45:30 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Lines: 56

In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Len Bucuvalas x5363) writes:

>I was sent this by a friend to post.  I find it challanging and believeable
>in light of how the bible has been edited over the years from the original as
>written by the apostles.....you decide...the following is a short excerpt
>of selected sections.

Edited over the years? :-)  Most modern translations of the bible are based
on the oldest manuscripts that are available, some of which are very ancient.
There are some "not so good" translations available however.  e.g. older
versions of the King James Bible were based on the earlier Latin Bible, but
more modern bibles, e.g. the Good News Bible, are based on even older
manuscripts than the Latin Bible.  Many highly trained biblical scholars
have pored over the alternative manuscripts over the years to choose what
was intended.  Where ambiguities still exist, you can get annotated versions
of the Bible that show all alternatives that have been proposed.

Go down to your local (non-fundamentalist) priest and have a chat to him
about bible translations.  I say non-fundamentalist, because the fundies
usually have an axe to grind, and don't always have the sound theological
background to make a good judgement.  (Many of the radical Christian sects
who are against the mainstream churches don't realise that some of their
"brilliant truths" were debated hundreds of years ago by biblical scholars
of much greater potential than themselves).

>First translation of the Aramaic script written by Judas Iscariot, the
>disciple of Jmmanuel (Jesus), discovered in 1963 in the burial cave of
>Jmmanuel.

Besides the fact that (I think) they aren't certain where the burial cave
was, Judas was a Jewish zealot (i.e. he wanted to overthrow Roman rule, by
force if necessary), and hardly a bible-writing type.  Oh, and changing the
I to the original J may make it LOOK more authentic, but it doesn't MAKE
it more authentic.  Just as the thees and thous in some bibles don't make
them any more authentic than any other bible.

>4:49  "Not until the time of space-traveling machines will the truth break
>through and gradually shake the false teaching that you are the son of god or
>Creation.

Would Judas have any concept of what a "machine" is (as we understand it),
let alone a "space-travelling" one? :-)

If you were to run this past any priest of a Christian church (even the
fundies) you'd be laughed at.  Not because of any "conspiracy" by the
churches, but just because it is a lot of unfounded crap.

Cheers,

Rhys.

+=====================+==================================+
||  Rhys Weatherley   |  The University of Queensland,  ||
||  [e-mail]  |  Australia.  G'day!!            ||
||       "I'm a FAQ nut - what's your problem?"         ||
+=====================+==================================+
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From: [e-mail] (Jeffrey S Matlick)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: test
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 15 Mar 92 22:57:56 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Jeffrey S Matlick)
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Michigan State University
Lines: 3
Originator: [e-mail]



    this is a test too, sorry!
Path: ns-mx!uunet!usc!apple!netcomsv!ctedge!djk
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: ? Majestic Twelve ?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 14 Mar 92 02:35:39 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: NMS&Systems Engineering
Lines: 13

Guy Hadsall <[e-mail]> writes:

>
> What is it ?
> Who is it ?
> Why are people afraid of its utterance ?

SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!! DONT EVEN _SAY_ THAT!

--- Daniel J. Karnes / WA6NDT --------------------------------------
--- NMS&Systems Engineering ----------------------------------------
--- [e-mail] / ..CtEdge!Nitro!Djk ----------------------
-- 'innovative solutions for modern problems' ----------------------
Path: ns-mx!uunet!europa.asd.contel.com!darwin.sura.net!ukma!hsdndev!husc-news.harvard.edu!husc-news!baker4
From: [e-mail] (David Baker)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.pagan,alt.paranormal,talk.religion.newage
Subject: Re: Creating Peace On Earth by 2000 !
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 15 Mar 92 11:23:57 GMT
References: <[e-mail]><[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Non-Sequitur Association of America.  Pizza.
Lines: 14
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Nntp-Posting-Host: husc10.harvard.edu
In-reply-to: [e-mail]'s message of 10 Mar 92 01:28:39 GMT

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:

   Your own god loves you; my personal goddess loves
   me.  Through this convincing that something out there loves us no matter
   what, hopefully things will improve.

I have a question, admittedly somewhat off the topic: why does "this
convincing" need to take place in order for anything to happen?

Just asking.
David
--
      ---    Only those for whom no cream cheese has ever belched    ---
           ---    will reap the Coke bottles of yesteryear.    ---
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From: [e-mail] (C. Ian Connolly)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: ? Majestic Twelve ?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 16 Mar 92 00:11:11 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: New York State Institute for Sebastian Cabot Studies
Lines: 5

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (barry.o.olson) writes:
>You must mean the MJ twelve. these guys are actual descendants of the
>star people from the planet Marij-juana from the horsehead galaxy.

No, no - you're thinking of the "Hosehead Nebula".
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!morale
From: [e-mail] (Enrique Morales)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: The Talmud as Given by Judas Iscariot
Message-ID: <=[e-mail]>
Date: 16 Mar 92 04:22:31 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Lines: 33
Nntp-Posting-Host: vccsouth13.its.rpi.edu

This all sounds good from the standpoint of someone who believes in all
those things mentioned in and of themselves ( ie believes in UFO's, ETI,
women's Lib., etc.) and I not condemning that, but why hasn't there even
been a _hint_ of any of it in the orthodox books. Surely, if it was such
a sin not to see woman as equal, there would have been some message somewhere
(I, myself, believe in equality across the board) to say so. I mean, just
because a large portion of people break a specific rule does not mean that
it will be erased. Such rules cannot be appealed.
    I am very skeptical about the authenticity of these documents, or
at least of the accuracy of the translation. As someone who knows more
than one language, I can say that the same thing can be translated in
different ways to say different things. All you have to do is choose words
that convey certain meanings and use others literally. One example is how
some jokes do not translate unless you change some words to convey the over-
all idea. How else do you think so many different christian religions came
about? Each one had a different interpretation of the same bible.
    So if you say that that it the true translation, I tell you that
that is his interpretation of what the manuscripts had inscribed in them.
    I would rather have a dictionary and the original document( well,
of course, a copy in the same language) and let me make my own translation
and interpretation. I feel more comfortable this way.


This is just my oppinion...

--Enrique
aka juggler

===========================================
||    Opinnions are like assholes        ||
||         Everybody has one,            ||
||                and they all stink...  ||
===========================================
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From: [e-mail] (Bat Rastard)
Newsgroups: alt.postmodern,alt.religion.kibology,alt.sex,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: La, la, la...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 16 Mar 92 03:51:00 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News Administrator)
Organization: Williams College Center for Computing
Lines: 22
Xref: ns-mx alt.postmodern:2339 alt.religion.kibology:1177 alt.sex:58776 alt.alien.visitors:4894
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1

In article <[e-mail]>, <[e-mail]> writes...
>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail]
>(Tom Hamill) says:
>>
>>In article [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>>In article [e-mail] (Paul D Evans) writes:
>>>>In article [e-mail] (Chris Colby) writes:
>>>>> In article [e-mail] (Lawrence C. Foard) writes:
>>>>> >In article [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>>>>
>>>>> >>  GEE, I'M SURE GLAD THAT .SIGNATURE VIRUSES ARE PASSE.
>>>>>
>>>>> >They will just mutate to get around it!
>>>>>
>>>>> >Evolution is god!
>>>>> Sanitation is fraud:
>>>>Sandinistas ate Maude.
>>>Santa Claus baits God.
>>>Satan Claws Bates Dog!  Film At Eleven!
>>Satin draws mates bod.
>I sat in Ward's tame knob.
I set a weird time bomb.
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!emory!athena.cs.uga.edu!rosalyn!david
From: [e-mail] (David Gundlach)
Newsgroups: alt.postmodern,alt.religion.kibology,alt.sex,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: La, la, la...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 16 Mar 92 06:16:00 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: University of Georgia Statistics Department
Lines: 34
Xref: ns-mx alt.postmodern:2340 alt.religion.kibology:1180 alt.sex:58784 alt.alien.visitors:4895

And then in <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Bat Rastard) said...
% In article <[e-mail]>, <[e-mail]> writes...
% >In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail]
% >(Tom Hamill) says:
% >>In article [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
% >>>In article [e-mail] (Paul D Evans) writes:
% >>>>In article [e-mail] (Chris Colby) writes:
% >>>>> In article [e-mail] (Lawrence C. Foard) writes:
% >>>>> >In article [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
% >>>>>
% >>>>> >>  GEE, I'M SURE GLAD THAT .SIGNATURE VIRUSES ARE PASSE.
% >>>>>
% >>>>> >They will just mutate to get around it!
% >>>>>
% >>>>> >Evolution is god!
% >>>>> Sanitation is fraud:
% >>>>Sandinistas ate Maude.
% >>>Santa Claus baits God.
% >>>Satan Claws Bates Dog!  Film At Eleven!
% >>Satin draws mates bod.
% >I sat in Ward's tame knob.
% I set a weird time bomb.
I shed a weird tie, Bob...


:-D
--
David Gundlach                [e-mail]
System Support and Integration        [e-mail]
UGA Statistics                [e-mail]
University of Georgia            [e-mail]
404/542-3289 or 404/542-5232        BITNET: statuga@uga

"I think, therefore I am wrong." --     me
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From: [e-mail] (Chris Luchini)
Newsgroups: alt.postmodern,alt.religion.kibology,alt.sex,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: La, la, la...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 16 Mar 92 07:50:45 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>,<[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (News)
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In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Bat Rastard) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]>, <[e-mail]> writes...
>>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail]
>>(Tom Hamill) says:
>>>
>>>In article [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>>>In article [e-mail] (Paul D Evans) writes:
>>>>>In article [e-mail] (Chris Colby) writes:
>>>>>> In article [e-mail] (Lawrence C. Foard) writes:
>>>>>> >In article [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>  GEE, I'M SURE GLAD THAT .SIGNATURE VIRUSES ARE PASSE.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >They will just mutate to get around it!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >Evolution is god!
>>>>>> Sanitation is fraud:
>>>>>Sandinistas ate Maude.
>>>>Santa Claus baits God.
>>>>Satan Claws Bates Dog!  Film At Eleven!
>>>Satin draws mates bod.
>>I sat in Ward's tame knob.
>I set a weird time bomb.
I ate a raw wan-ton frond.
-Chris L
*1110 W. Green/Urbana IL 61801/217-333-0505/[e-mail]
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From: [e-mail] (Daniel Dise)
Newsgroups: alt.postmodern,alt.religion.kibology,alt.sex,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: La, la, la...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 16 Mar 92 08:26:19 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (News File Owner)
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (David Gundlach) writes:
>And then in <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Bat Rastard) said...
>% In article <[e-mail]>, <[e-mail]> writes...
>% >In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail]
>% >(Tom Hamill) says:
>% >>In article [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>% >>>In article [e-mail] (Paul D Evans) writes:
>% >>>>In article [e-mail] (Chris Colby) writes:
>% >>>>> In article [e-mail] (Lawrence C. Foard) writes:
>% >>>>> >In article [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>% >>>>>
>% >>>>> >>  GEE, I'M SURE GLAD THAT .SIGNATURE VIRUSES ARE PASSE.
>% >>>>>
>% >>>>> >They will just mutate to get around it!
>% >>>>>
>% >>>>> >Evolution is god!
>% >>>>> Sanitation is fraud:
>% >>>>Sandinistas ate Maude.
>% >>>Santa Claus baits God.
>% >>>Satan Claws Bates Dog!  Film At Eleven!
>% >>Satin draws mates bod.
>% >I sat in Ward's tame knob.
>% I set a weird time bomb.
>I shed a weird tie, Bob...
>
>
BOB!  LOOK EVERYONE, IT'S BOB!  LONG LIVE BOB!

            --Aegis
"Oh, it's [pause] <--YOU--> Bob."
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From: [e-mail] (Michael Wasylik)
Newsgroups: alt.postmodern,alt.religion.kibology,alt.sex,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: La, la, la...
Summary: My two cent's worth...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 16 Mar 92 09:04:05 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Wierder & Wierder, Inc.
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (David Gundlach) writes:
>And then in <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Bat Rastard) said...
>% In article <[e-mail]>, <[e-mail]> writes...
>% >In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail]
>% >(Tom Hamill) says:
>% >>In article [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>% >>>In article [e-mail] (Paul D Evans) writes:
>% >>>>In article [e-mail] (Chris Colby) writes:
>% >>>>> In article [e-mail] (Lawrence C. Foard) writes:
>% >>>>> >In article [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>% >>>>>
>% >>>>> >>  GEE, I'M SURE GLAD THAT .SIGNATURE VIRUSES ARE PASSE.
>% >>>>>
>% >>>>> >They will just mutate to get around it!
>% >>>>>
>% >>>>> >Evolution is god!
>% >>>>> Sanitation is fraud:
>% >>>>Sandinistas ate Maude.
>% >>>Santa Claus baits God.
>% >>>Satan Claws Bates Dog!  Film At Eleven!
>% >>Satin draws mates bod.
>% >I sat in Ward's tame knob.
>% I set a weird time bomb.
>I shed a weird tie, Bob...
I shot a wet teen babe.

Mw

--
+-------------------------------------------------------------+
: Mike Wasylik                    [e-mail] :
:          *Always* cover your assets.                        :
+-------------------------------------------------------------+
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From: [e-mail] (Patrick galley)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Info on Ummits
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 14 Mar 92 10:26:56 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (netnews admin account)
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I've read several month ago some article in this newsgroup about the
Ummits and the J.P. Petit's book.
I would like to know if someone have ever heard something about others
group of peoples who have been contacted by the Ummits than in Spanien.
I woul to know if someone have other information source about this subject
and and what is the credibility rate of this subject.

thanks .
                                       Patrick

Patrick Galley
Student at the Engineering School of Geneva
[e-mail]

Please , could you send me your answer directly by e-mail or trough
sci.skeptic, because I can't access to alt.alien.visitors easily.
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal,sci.skeptic,sci.space
Subject: Re: Mars Face / General Info.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 13 Mar 92 16:16:48 GMT
Reply-To: caligula!edw (Edwin Howell Watkeys III)
Organization: Drexel University Guerrilla Networking Project
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In article <[e-mail]> (alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal,sci.skeptic,sci.space), [e-mail] (Frank Stuart Brown) writes:
>     3. As the sun shrinks so the outer planets cool and
>        we must move nearer the sun.
>
Is the sun shrinking? I was under the impression that it is expanding. *If*
it is shrinking now, it *will* eventually expand to approximately the asteroid
belt, right?

Aside from this, I know that the energy output of the sun has *increased*
as a function of time, so independent of any shrinking (if it does happen),
the planets will on average be warmer. On earth, this could be offset by fewer
greenhouse gases (oops!), but of course, we all know what's happening with
them...

Ed

---------
Ed Watkeys                         "...if you wish to strive for peace of
phlpa!caligula![e-mail]   soul and pleasure, then believe; if
Drexel University (Comp Sci)        you wish to be a devotee of truth,
Guerrilla Networking Project        then inquire...." -- Nietzsche
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From: [e-mail] (Jennifer Bolt)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Q&A on Extraterrestrial Abductions and Visitations
Keywords: Crap
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 16 Mar 92 16:27:23 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Allegheny College
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Wake up, The universe is to big, and the distances to great for aliens to
travel back and forth, that is from the Earth back to where ever.  So no
aliens have probably come to Earth, although it is almost definite that
life must exist elsewhere.  And as for channeling, lets not drag mystical
make believe into the endeavors of science.  Maybe some aliens have come
here, but why or how we may never know, but do you really expect people to
believe some mystical entity is communicating with you ? Who are you
Buckaroo Bonzi ?
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From: [e-mail] (Janis Maria Cortese)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.pagan,alt.paranormal,talk.religion.newage
Subject: Re: Creating Peace On Earth by 2000 !
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 16 Mar 92 16:49:27 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: University of California, Irvine
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (David Baker) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:
>
>   Your own god loves you; my personal goddess loves
>   me.  Through this convincing that something out there loves us no matter
>   what, hopefully things will improve.
>
>I have a question, admittedly somewhat off the topic: why does "this
>convincing" need to take place in order for anything to happen?
>
>Just asking.
>David

I suppose it's the typical old saw that if you don't love yourself or
think you're worthy of love, then it's hard for you to act in a loving
way toward other people and things.  We have to be comvinced as a group
that we are worth the effort it would take to make things better.

Regards and blessings,
Janis C.

P.S.:  What the HELL was your .sig?
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From: [e-mail] (Jennifer Bolt)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Kuwait poodle profile
Keywords: poodle people
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 16 Mar 92 16:18:51 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Allegheny College
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In article <[e-mail]>
[e-mail] (CSYSPCN) writes:
> Has anyone else noticed how much the photomicograph of a dust
> partical from the Kuwait oil fires published on p159 of the
> March 7'th Science News resembles a poodle?
>
> Is this evidence of LITTLE green men?

At first guess I would say the Russians were behind it, but because of
their present situation, I would favor a Wellian Invasion Scenario
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From: [e-mail] (Chris Rutkowski)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Circles in the fields
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 16 Mar 92 16:18:05 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <3NRK+L=@irie.ais.org> <[e-mail]>
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada
Lines: 149

In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (David Tiberio) writes:

>In article <3NRK+L=@irie.ais.org> [e-mail] (David Daniels) writes:
>>
>>I remember seeing on TV, a segment of a show, which had two farmers (I
>>bleave) who admited to creating the circles. Then, later in the show, or on
>>a different show (can't recall) they had pretty solid proof that humans
>>could not have made these circles.. Does anyone know what any of this proof
>>was? The topic came up the other day and I can't quite remember anything
>>that they had said on the show..
>>

>    1) The soil becomes dehydrated, obviously from a large amount
>    of heat used in creating the crop circle. The soil seems to lose
>    it's ability to absorb water...when placed in water it does not
>    turn into mud. I have seen this on TV in the early 80's when
>    they discussed crop circles formed in the US.

Not consistently true.  Many sites are already dehydrated.  Other
sites, such as the Argonne circles, are in a swamp!

>    2) Humans are not perfect. They do not make things perfectly unless
>    they put in lots of money, technology, planning, and effort. A
>    farmer cannot make a crop circle as perfect as they are. British
>    troops tried to but failed to make a perfect circle, although I guess
>    if they were thousands of miles away it might make a perfect dot.

Obviously, you've never met a perfectionist.

>    3) The stalks are never broken; they are merely arced over. When
>    humans tried to make crop circles, the stalks ALWAYS break.

Again, not true.  It is possible to find broken stalks within =real=
crop circles, and it is possible to find bent stalks produced by
hoaxers.  We've look at such sites.
>    4) The stalks continue to grow.

Usually.  It depends on the growing season.  The Rossburn circles in
1977 were formed near harvest, and the stalks did not continue growing.
They remained on the ground, where they eventually got covered with
mold, and decayed in situ.


>    5) People have held stake outs, waiting for circles to be frormed.
>    They claim that some circles are formed within 20 seconds of no-one
>    looking at the site, usually at night or in a fog patch. No noises
>    are heard. Observers are usually camped out on a hill top.

In a few areas of southern England, yes.  But in other areas with crop
circles, they hardly form as swiftly as that.


>    6) Numerous crop circles have appeared all over the world,
>    concentrating on rural areas. All circles have the same traits as
>    far as the soil is concerned. In some cases grass dies. This
>    is evidence that there are few hoaxes. If all crop circles are
>    hoaxes, then the perpetrator would have to:

>        a) Have lots of money

>        b) Have access to tarnsportation around the world,
>        mostly North America and Western Europe


Not if he was only one of several hoaxers!  In England alone, there
were at least a half-dozen hoaxers exposed.  In North America, one was
found and others are suspected.  The sites are NOT as consistent as to
suggest that one person had to be responsible!  NAICCR has records of
300 UGMs over the past few years in North America, with varying traits.
The Phillips catalogue has many, many more.

Moral: Don't believe everything you read by all cerealogists!  Some
researchers know what they're doing, but others ...


>        c) Have advanced technology

>        d) Use heat or a device which produces lots of excess heat
>        to bend the stalks

This hasn't been firmly established yet.  Leavengood's work has not
been widely distributed, and it certainly hasn't had a good look-over
by other plant physiologists and soil technologists.


>        e) Have the intent of fooling people on a huge, massive
>        scale

Easy enough to do.

>        f) Have the ability to keep hidden while forming circles

Now, here's a problem.  We had one circle form here in Manitoba, right
next to the Trans Canada Highway and across from a trailer park.  Yet
no one saw anyone in the field!  Does this mean it's easy to make
circles, or does it show the mysterious nature of the phenomenon?


>        g) Have the ability to plan designs that are complicated
>        to design from the ground by humans...humans would make
>        mistakes. Some crop circles have four circles of identicle
>        sizes. Some have toruses. Some are symmetrical. Humans
>        would make mistakes unless all parts were marked out by
>        corner posts, line markings, etc.

As some hoaxers have admitted using.  The German students made some
pretty good circle complexes last year, if I remember right.

Andrews, Meaden and delgado have all been shown to have difficulty in
judging the authenticity of crop circles made by hoaxers.  Your
categorization of facts is based on their pervasive knowledge of circle
formations.

>        h) Last of all, with the amount of effort that goes into
>        this, there would have to be lots of human participants.
>        One farmer cannot make 10 crop circles on his farm, let alone
>        100 farmers...

Why not?  As a test to try and duplicate some Canadian circles, we
spent a half-hour creating a =sister= circle.  Give us a few hours ...


>    The evidence is there. The message is clear to me; however, I have
>no idea what any of them mean. Some people may figure out what they mean,
>and that will be the day...


Yes, the circles are mysterious, but the facts are not as cut-and-dried
as you make out.  I've been looking at UGMs for 15 years and the data
are not as consistent as is largely assumed.  In England, it is
suggested that 75% of the circles are hoaxes.  How does this jive with
all the soil and crop characteristics?

Believe it or not, I'm not a skeptic or a debunker!  I'm a Fortean
researcher who has looked at many, many cases and has looked for
supportive evidence that is truly convincing.  There are some good
circle cases, but nowhere near as many as is usually quoted.  many of
the complex formations are probably hoaxes.







--
Chris Rutkowski - [e-mail]
Royal Astronomical Society of Canada
University of Manitoba - Winnipeg, Canada
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From: [e-mail] (The Cookster!)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Q&A on Extraterrestrial Abductions and Visitations
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 16 Mar 92 20:35:12 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
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In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Jennifer Bolt) writes...
>Wake up, The universe is to big, and the distances to great for aliens to
>travel back and forth, that is from the Earth back to where ever.

    What do they say about "assume"?
Path: ns-mx!uunet!Cadence.COM!jdm
From: [e-mail] (Joe Mastroianni)
Newsgroups: alt.slack,alt.alien.visitors,aus.flame
Subject: Re: CRUCIAL ANNOUNCEMENT!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 16 Mar 92 18:50:55 GMT
References: <axolotl.700389606@syzygy>
Organization: Cadence Design Systems, Inc.
Lines: 30
Xref: ns-mx alt.slack:2578 alt.alien.visitors:4906

In article <axolotl.700389606@syzygy> [e-mail] writes:
>
>From a leaflet pinned up around here:
>                            _
>                          RAEL
>
>              CONTACTED BY EXTRATERRESTRIALS!
>
>            will give an exceptional conference
>
>             on Thursday 26th Match at 8.00 p.m.
>


 "And I'm hovering like a fly. Waiting for the winshield on the freeway."

  - Lamb Lies Down on Broadway (Is it the same guy?)



  Joe




--
Joe Mastroianni          AKA: AA6YD  AA6YD @ N6LDL.#NOCAL.CA.USA.NA
Cadence Design Systems
Santa Clara Ca.          "Up the airy mountain;down the rushy glen; we
[e-mail]           daren't go a hunting; for fear of little men "
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: The Ra Material
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 16 Mar 92 22:09:59 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: Clark University
Lines: 5


        Has anyone out there read the Ra  Material or anything else by its
authors? Anyone have any comments on it? A friend has been trying to get me to read it, and I want to know if it is worth my time.

                                Bruin.
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From: [e-mail] (Juergen Behse)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Original raw format MARS FACE frames at UFO-FTP-site
Summary: mars face
Keywords: mars face
Message-ID: <behse.700785596@tubue>
Date: 16 Mar 92 22:39:56 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (News  Manager)
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Nntp-Posting-Host: mikro.ee.tu-berlin.de

Hi,
there are now the 2 original VIKING probes "MARS-FACE" frames at the UFO-FTP-
server at phoenix.oulu.fi (130.231.240.17)
Look in /pub/incoming or /pub/ufo_and_space_pics

There are also readme-files (ASCII), which describe , how to convert the
raw data to GIF format !

There are also 2 new ufo-pics: gbreez2.gif and ufo.jpg !
have a look at it and post in alt.alien.visitors newsgroup, what You think
about it !

Best regards, Stefan Hartmann,c/o Workshop for
Decentral Energy Research
email to: [e-mail]
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From: [e-mail] (Bat Rastard)
Newsgroups: alt.postmodern,alt.religion.kibology,alt.sex,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: La, la, la...
Summary: My two cent's worth...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 16 Mar 92 18:45:00 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News Administrator)
Organization: Williams College Center for Computing
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News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Michael Wasylik) writes...
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (David Gundlach) writes:
>>And then in <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Bat Rastard) said...
>>% In article <[e-mail]>, <[e-mail]> writes...
>>% >In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail]
>>% >(Tom Hamill) says:
>>% >>In article [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>% >>>In article [e-mail] (Paul D Evans) writes:
>>% >>>>In article [e-mail] (Chris Colby) writes:
>>% >>>>> In article [e-mail] (Lawrence C. Foard) writes:
>>% >>>>> >In article [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>% >>>>>
>>% >>>>> >>  GEE, I'M SURE GLAD THAT .SIGNATURE VIRUSES ARE PASSE.
>>% >>>>>
>>% >>>>> >They will just mutate to get around it!
>>% >>>>>
>>% >>>>> >Evolution is god!
>>% >>>>> Sanitation is fraud:
>>% >>>>Sandinistas ate Maude.
>>% >>>Santa Claus baits God.
>>% >>>Satan Claws Bates Dog!  Film At Eleven!
>>% >>Satin draws mates bod.
>>% >I sat in Ward's tame knob.
>>% I set a weird time bomb.
>>I shed a weird tie, Bob...
>I shot a wet teen babe.
Izod's a wasp trend, Biff.
Path: ns-mx!uunet!decwrl!access.usask.ca!regina!hercules.cs.uregina.ca!bayko
From: [e-mail] (john bayko)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space
Subject: Mars needs oxygen, Venus has too much.
Summary: Making both Mars and Venus habitable.
Keywords: Mars, Venus, Terraforming
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 16 Mar 92 21:12:30 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Usenet Admin)
Reply-To: [e-mail] (john bayko)
Organization: University of Regina, Regina, Saskatchewan
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Nntp-Posting-Host: hercules.cs.uregina.ca

In article
     <[e-mail]>
     [e-mail] (Phil G. Fraering)
writes:
>[e-mail] (Frank Stuart Brown) writes:
>
>>I find the subject of past life on Mars fascinating.
>>I pose the thoughts that:
>> [...]
>>    4. Venus will eventually be habitable as earth dies.
>
>Venus will only become habitable if someone makes it so. It would
>require a lot of energy to remove its atmosphere.

    If so, why not put it to good use? It may be interesting to speculate
on terraforming both Venus and Mars by transferring excess atmosphere from
one to the other.
    I recently read an article about verious terraforming methods that could
be used on Mars, such as generating CFCs to produce a greenhouse effect to
raise the temperature, extracting oxygen from the SO2 in the rocks, how
much nitrogen would be needed as a buffer to prevent oxygen toxicity...
    It mentioned the difficulty with trying to add material such as ice to
Mars by comets and such - mainly the fact that you'd need millions of trips
to get enough material. It'd certainly be out of the question to use
ordinary space ships to carry the atmosphere from Venus to Mars.
    A giagantic pressurised balloon could be used. In orbit around Venus, a
hose with an atmospheric scoop on the end could pump atmosphere into the
balloon, until the balloon were pressurised enough. The balloon needn't be in
geosyncronous orbit (around Venus, that's be a problem anyway), so the hose
would only be a few hundred km in length. As for propulsion, a few possi-
bilities include overfilling the balloon, then releasing the pressure for
propulsion, ionising the gas and accelerating it to produce an ion thrust
(with solar panels or nuclear reactors for the energy) or perhaps just
constructing a solar sail. It'd take years to travel to Mars, but
terraforming is an intergenerational project anyway.
    I wonder how much pressure such a balloon could hold if made of today's
high strength polymers, and what size it would be (with internal
reinforcements, I suppose).
    Of course, the materials for such a balloon could be harder to obtain
than an atmosphere for Mars, I suppose. Still, it's fun to speculate.

John Bayko.
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!wupost!rice!uw-beaver!fluke!emery
From: [e-mail] (John Emery)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.pagan,alt.paranormal,talk.religion.newage
Subject: Re: Creating Peace On Earth by 2000 !
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 16 Mar 92 22:45:59 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: John Fluke Mfg. Co., Inc., Everett, WA
Lines: 62
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4911 alt.pagan:13532 alt.paranormal:4643 talk.religion.newage:9785

I wrote:

>> Before world peace is even possible, should not the issue of lack of
>> peace in the individual be addressed?  Lack of peace stems in the
>> heart of individuals and manifests to those around.  The introspective
>> question I see at hand is for the individual: how do I find peace?

Amanda Walker writes:

>Some people find it easier to work on external problems, some on
>internal ones.  This doesn't make either approach better than the other,
>though.  Just as you may find that introspection provides insight into
>external problems, others may find that external work provides insight
>into their own psyche.  A mixture of both is also quite possible.

One must ask where war, murder, violence, etc. starts.  Does it not start
in the heart of the instigator?  If there were peace in the hearts of
people, then we wouldn't have external problems.  There is something wrong
with the human heart.  Humans spend their lives trying to find peace.
One must ask why there is a lack of peace in the first place.  Something
has happened to the human race which has caused a loss of peace in the
heart.  This is one of many reasons why I see the gospel as a clear
explanation of this phenomena that other philosophies sidestep.  But my
Lord Jesus offers such eternal words, "Peace I leave with you; my peace I
give to you.  I do not give to you as the world gives.  Do not let your
hearts be troubled and do not be afraid."

>> Amongst the waring that goes on in my soul, I have found where my source
>> of peace comes from.  I would invite one to investigate Romans 5:1 and
>> Ephesians 2:14 in the Holy Bible.
>
>Other good sources include the Quran, the Bhagavad-Gita, the Tao Te
>Ching, the writings of Buckminster Fuller or J.R.R. Tolkien, ... meaning
>and insight depend upon the reader as much as the text being read.  It
>is the reader who makes a text holy.

Amanda, please share with the readers how your source of peace is found
in these writings.  Of particular interest, what have you found in the
Quran that brings you peace?  And how does it bring you peace?

>> May peace be upon all who read this.  Remember, there is one who loves
>> you and hold peace out in His hand.
>
>That one, however, has many names and wears many faces, sometimes
>simultaneously.  It is up to us to see the peace already within our
>hearts.

Amanda, if peace is already in everyone's heart, it sure has a way of
disguising itself.  Look around you.  Is the world around you full of
peace?

>> God bless,
>
>And give you wider insight,

Thank you.  I pray that He does.  And not only I, but yourself and all
those who are reading, whom He calls out to.

>Amanda Walker                              [e-mail]

John Emery
[e-mail]
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!wupost!rice!uw-beaver!fluke!emery
From: [e-mail] (John Emery)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.pagan,alt.paranormal,talk.religion.newage
Subject: Re: Creating Peace On Earth by 2000 !
Keywords: Peace Clock
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 16 Mar 92 22:49:26 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: John Fluke Mfg. Co., Inc., Everett, WA
Lines: 52
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4912 alt.pagan:13533 alt.paranormal:4644 talk.religion.newage:9786

I wrote:

>>Before world peace is even possible, should not the issue of lack of
>>peace in the individual be addressed?  Lack of peace stems in the
>>heart of individuals and manifests to those around.  The introspective
>>question I see at hand is for the individual: how do I find peace?

Janis Cortese writes:

>You find peace whatever way that works best for you.  I may find peace
>through a different means.

It has been the only way I have found peace.  I would say, Janis, not that
I choose this way because it worked best.  Rather, Jesus reached out to
me drew me to Himself.  Even though I resisted, He gently reminded me that
He loved me and had all I needed.  When I finally surrendered to Him, His
peace simply followed.

>>Amongst the waring that goes on in my soul, I have found where my source
>>of peace comes from.  I would invite one to investigate Romans 5:1 and
>>Ephesians 2:14 in the Holy Bible.
>
>I won't get into this.  All I *will* say is that the Bible also says
>that I am in subjugation to men.  How can I find peace in a book that
>says such things about me?

Please share what you are referring to, Janis.


>There certainly is.  Your own god loves you; my personal goddess loves
>me.  Through this convincing that something out there loves us no matter
>what, hopefully things will improve.
>
>We will, however, have to make our own peace.  There is no book or deity
>out there that will make things all better with a wave of a magic wand.
>WE have to do it -- all of it.  So let's roll up our sleeves and get to
>work, people.

Janis, if your personal goddess loves you, why doesn't this goddess give
you peace?  And how do you serve this goddess to show your love?

Jesus promises to roll up His sleeves and work in our life.  That's what
He's all about.  I look back over my life and have found without Him I
have had a pretty bad track record of bringing myself peace.

>Regards and blessings,
>Janis C.

Take care,

John
[e-mail]
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!wupost!ukma!daffodil!nightshade.cs.odu.edu!dise
From: [e-mail] (Daniel Dise)
Newsgroups: alt.postmodern,alt.religion.kibology,alt.sex,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: La, la, la...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 17 Mar 92 00:13:38 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (News File Owner)
Organization: DUBL-D Enterprises, Inc.
Lines: 29
Xref: ns-mx alt.postmodern:2346 alt.religion.kibology:1192 alt.sex:58861 alt.alien.visitors:4913
Nntp-Posting-Host: nightshade.cs.odu.edu

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Bat Rastard) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Michael Wasylik) writes...
>>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (David Gundlach) writes:
>>>And then in <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Bat Rastard) said...
>>>% In article <[e-mail]>, <[e-mail]> writes...
>>>% >In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail]
>>>% >(Tom Hamill) says:
>>>% >>In article [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>>% >>>In article [e-mail] (Paul D Evans) writes:
>>>% >>>>In article [e-mail] (Chris Colby) writes:
>>>% >>>>> In article [e-mail] (Lawrence C. Foard) writes:
>>>% >>>>> >In article [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>>% >>>>>
>>>% >>>>> >>  GEE, I'M SURE GLAD THAT .SIGNATURE VIRUSES ARE PASSE.
>>>% >>>>>
>>>% >>>>> >They will just mutate to get around it!
>>>% >>>>>
>>>% >>>>> >Evolution is god!
>>>% >>>>> Sanitation is fraud:
>>>% >>>>Sandinistas ate Maude.
>>>% >>>Santa Claus baits God.
>>>% >>>Satan Claws Bates Dog!  Film At Eleven!
>>>% >>Satin draws mates bod.
>>>% >I sat in Ward's tame knob.
>>>% I set a weird time bomb.
>>>I shed a weird tie, Bob...
>>I shot a wet teen babe.
>Izod's a wasp trend, Biff.
I drove off a west end cliff
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!hellgate.utah.edu!fcom.cc.utah.edu!cc.weber.edu!jtan
From: [e-mail] (THE TAN MAN)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.pagan,alt.paranormal,talk.religion.newage
Subject: Re: Creating Peace On Earth by 2000 !
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 17 Mar 92 01:01:00 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Organization: Weber State University CS Department
Lines: 14
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4914 alt.pagan:13534 alt.paranormal:4645 talk.religion.newage:9788
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (John
Emery) writes...
>in the heart of the instigator?  If there were peace in the hearts of
>people, then we wouldn't have external problems.  There is something wrong

    Not necessarily.  If we had Peace AND non-Peace in our hearts,
then it would be possible for us to have external problems because
the two are at odds with each other, and one must win out, even if
only temporarily.  As long as it's the non-Peace side that is in
control, we will have external problems.

Highest Love and Peace

The Tan Man
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uakari.primate.wisc.edu!ames!apple!netcomsv!mork!payner
From: [e-mail] (Rich Payne)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space
Subject: Re: Mars needs oxygen, Venus has too much.
Keywords: Mars, Venus, Terraforming
Message-ID: <1l8hx#[e-mail]>
Date: 17 Mar 92 00:42:59 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)
Lines: 67
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4915 sci.space:27963

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (john bayko) writes:
>In article
>     <[e-mail]>
>     [e-mail] (Phil G. Fraering)
>writes:
>>[e-mail] (Frank Stuart Brown) writes:
>>
>>>I find the subject of past life on Mars fascinating.
>>>I pose the thoughts that:
>>> [...]
>>>    4. Venus will eventually be habitable as earth dies.
>>
>>Venus will only become habitable if someone makes it so. It would
>>require a lot of energy to remove its atmosphere.
>
>    If so, why not put it to good use? It may be interesting to speculate
>on terraforming both Venus and Mars by transferring excess atmosphere from
>one to the other.
>    I recently read an article about verious terraforming methods that could
>be used on Mars, such as generating CFCs to produce a greenhouse effect to

CFC's are at best a poor greenhouse gas. Why not go for something
useful like CO2?

>raise the temperature, extracting oxygen from the SO2 in the rocks, how

This is not a trivial task.

>much nitrogen would be needed as a buffer to prevent oxygen toxicity...
>    It mentioned the difficulty with trying to add material such as ice to
>Mars by comets and such - mainly the fact that you'd need millions of trips
>to get enough material. It'd certainly be out of the question to use
>ordinary space ships to carry the atmosphere from Venus to Mars.
>    A giagantic pressurised balloon could be used. In orbit around Venus, a
>hose with an atmospheric scoop on the end could pump atmosphere into the
>balloon, until the balloon were pressurised enough. The balloon needn't be in
>geosyncronous orbit (around Venus, that's be a problem anyway), so the hose
>would only be a few hundred km in length. As for propulsion, a few possi-
>bilities include overfilling the balloon, then releasing the pressure for
>propulsion, ionising the gas and accelerating it to produce an ion thrust
>(with solar panels or nuclear reactors for the energy) or perhaps just
>constructing a solar sail. It'd take years to travel to Mars, but

You may find such a balloon to flimsy for any standard propulsions, and
it wouldhave a huge sail area as it is. I suspect that the solar wind
would not send it in the direction you wished it to go.

>terraforming is an intergenerational project anyway.
>    I wonder how much pressure such a balloon could hold if made of today's
>high strength polymers, and what size it would be (with internal
>reinforcements, I suppose).

With a hard vacuum outside, it will be subject to huge pressures. In fact,
the pump to fill it should be quite an undertaking all by itself.

>    Of course, the materials for such a balloon could be harder to obtain
>than an atmosphere for Mars, I suppose. Still, it's fun to speculate.
>
>John Bayko.


Interesting indeed.


Rich

[e-mail]
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!wupost!psuvax1!rutgers!att!att!fang!tarpit!tous!bilver!dona
From: [e-mail] (Don Allen)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: The Talmud as Given by Judas Iscariot
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 16 Mar 92 20:20:28 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <![e-mail]>
Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL
Lines: 51

In article <![e-mail]> [e-mail] (Robert Sheaffer) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Len Bucuvalas x5363) writes:
>>I was sent this by a friend to post.  I find it challanging and believeable
>>in light of how the bible has been edited over the years from the original as
>>written by the apostles.....you decide...the following is a short excerpt
>>
>>First translation of the Aramaic script written by Judas Iscariot, the
>>disciple of Jmmanuel (Jesus), discovered in 1963 in the burial cave of
>>Jmmanuel.
>>
>>Translated into German by Isa Rashid and Eduard Meier, and translated into
>>English by Julie Ziegler and B. L. Greene.
>>
>Eduard "Billy" Meier of Switzerland is the perpetrator of the notorious
>"UFOs from the Pleiades" hoax.

So tell us oh learned and wise Govt agent Shaeffer..just HOW did Billy "hoax"
the Pleiadian craft?

>
>
>>1:2   Semjasa, the celestial son and guardian angel of god, the great ruler of
>>the distant travelers who traversed the expanse of the universe, together with
>>a terrestrial woman, begot Adam, the father of the white human race.
>
>"Semjase" is the name of Meier's extraterrestrial girlfriend.
>--
>

Correction oh wise and learned sage of the would-be NSA boot-licker set..

Semjase=Pleiadian female
Semjasa=her FATHER



>        Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - [e-mail]
>
> Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!
>
>               "The facts can only take you so far in this case.",
>      - Oliver Stone, discussing "JFK" on CBS-TV's "48 Hours", Feb. 5, 1992

Is this .sig PC? was it approved by your "handlers"?


--
-* Don Allen *-               // Only   | Are you ready for SETI?
Internet: [e-mail]  \X/ Amiga   | Oct 12,1992 - ET comes to NM
UUCP: .........uunet!peora!bilver!dona  | The *real* "October Surprise"
Psi-Tech and alien brain-wave research -- Whats going on at Los Alamos?
Path: ns-mx!uunet!munnari.oz.au!metro!seagoon.newcastle.edu.au!cc.newcastle.edu.au!c8929469
From: [e-mail] (stu)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space
Subject: Re: Mars and Venus (The problems associated with terraforming)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 17 Mar 92 03:21:53 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: University of Newcastle, AUSTRALIA
Lines: 62
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4917 sci.space:27968

[Various stuff about venus and mars' atmospheres deleted]

>     If so, why not put it to good use? It may be interesting to speculate
> on terraforming both Venus and Mars by transferring excess atmosphere from
> one to the other.

Long and arduous process, it would be more effective to work out some sort of
common chemical reaction to convert the atmosphere on-site.

>     I recently read an article about verious terraforming methods that could
> be used on Mars, such as generating CFCs to produce a greenhouse effect to
> raise the temperature, extracting oxygen from the SO2 in the rocks, how
> much nitrogen would be needed as a buffer to prevent oxygen toxicity...
>     It mentioned the difficulty with trying to add material such as ice to
> Mars by comets and such - mainly the fact that you'd need millions of trips
> to get enough material. It'd certainly be out of the question to use
> ordinary space ships to carry the atmosphere from Venus to Mars.

That's right, Unless you want to ship those chemicals from a closer planet
like earth (oh no!) it's going to be too much effort for the results.

>     A giagantic pressurised balloon could be used. In orbit around Venus, a
> hose with an atmospheric scoop on the end could pump atmosphere into the
> balloon, until the balloon were pressurised enough. The balloon needn't be in
> geosyncronous orbit (around Venus, that's be a problem anyway), so the hose
> would only be a few hundred km in length. As for propulsion, a few possi-
> bilities include overfilling the balloon, then releasing the pressure for
> propulsion, ionising the gas and accelerating it to produce an ion thrust
> (with solar panels or nuclear reactors for the energy) or perhaps just
> constructing a solar sail. It'd take years to travel to Mars, but
> terraforming is an intergenerational project anyway.
>     I wonder how much pressure such a balloon could hold if made of today's
> high strength polymers, and what size it would be (with internal
> reinforcements, I suppose).

That would have to be one tough balloon to withstand the near vaccum of space
without rupturing, It might be better to use pressurised cylinders (very big
ones mind you) the siphon Idea sounds like a good one.

>     Of course, the materials for such a balloon could be harder to obtain
> than an atmosphere for Mars, I suppose. Still, it's fun to speculate.
>
> John Bayko.

There is one final problem that nobody seems to have mentioned.  Venus has a
counter-rotative orbit (unique among the rest of the planets in our system)
in which the direction of axial rotation is the same as the orbital rotation.
This means that the days on venus are approximately 250 earth-days long!!!
The planet surface would be baked under continual sunlight for around 2/3
of an earth-year.  Not to mention the nights!!! it's worse than the south
pole on this planet...

Mars however isn't such a problem, its the atmospheric pressure.  Due to the
small size of mars, the atmosphere would have to be more highly concentrated
per cubic kilometer than earths to achieve a similar air pressure reading to
that of earth.  It would be like a very high altitude earth!

stu :)
--
"L'amour qui nous reunita fait tout notre bonheur."

send discourse to [e-mail]
Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!pacbell.com!att!linac!unixhub!slacvm!bkf
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: The Gods of Eden
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 17 Mar 92 03:38:35 GMT
Organization: Stanford Linear Accelerator Center
Lines: 5

I highly recommend, THE GODS OF EDEN by William Bramley, published in
1990 by Dahlin Family Press.  It deals with UFOs in history - from the
Garden of Eden and Egypt to the Black Plague (which spawned the Grim
Reaper image) to modern times.  An excellently researched and thought
provoking work.
Path: ns-mx!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!asuvax!ukma!widener!beyonet!beyo
From: [e-mail] (Steve Urich)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: The Talmud as Given by Judas Iscariot
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 17 Mar 92 05:14:05 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <![e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Beyonet Network
Lines: 30


?[e-mail] (Don Allen) writes:
?>In article <![e-mail]> [e-mail] (Robert Sheaffer) writes:
?>>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Len Bucuvalas x5363) writes:
?>>>
?>>>Translated into German by Isa Rashid and Eduard Meier, and translated into
?>>>English by Julie Ziegler and B. L. Greene.
?>>>
?>>Eduard "Billy" Meier of Switzerland is the perpetrator of the notorious
?>>"UFOs from the Pleiades" hoax.
?>
?>So tell us oh learned and wise Govt agent Shaeffer..just HOW did Billy "hoax"
?>the Pleiadian craft?

    Thats what I would like to know... All these so called professional
video technowizards with there whinning about being a hoax. Proof it!
I know! Billy is really `The Lawnmower Man' and he did it all in Virtual
Reality. :-))) Really!!! Its all `Virtual Reality' on Film. Mind over matter
thats why you couldn't see any fishing line :-).

Steve
--
 ############### Stephen Urich WB3FTP |"Starlightbeams project ###############
 ##|_|########## Bensalem, PA  USA    |me in Red Blue and Green##|_|##########
 ###############----------------------|Velvetdreams protect me ###############
 ####       #### snark!beyonet!beyo   |when I hit the Screen"  ####       ####
 ##    |_|    ## widener!beyonet!beyo |--Alan Parsons Project  ##    |_|    ##
 ##           ##-----------------------------------------------##           ##
 ####       ####  Packet Radio: WB3FTP@WA3NWL.#EPA.PA.USA.NA   ####       ####
_###############_______________________________________________###############_
Path: ns-mx!uunet!stanford.edu!apple!netcomsv!mork!payner
From: [e-mail] (Rich Payne)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space
Subject: Re: Mars and Venus (The problems associated with terraforming)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 17 Mar 92 06:11:47 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)
Lines: 38
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4920 sci.space:27973

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (stu) writes:
>[Various stuff about venus and mars' atmospheres deleted]
>
{even more stuff deleted, really! :^}

>There is one final problem that nobody seems to have mentioned.  Venus has a
>counter-rotative orbit (unique among the rest of the planets in our system)
>in which the direction of axial rotation is the same as the orbital rotation.
>This means that the days on venus are approximately 250 earth-days long!!!
>The planet surface would be baked under continual sunlight for around 2/3
>of an earth-year.  Not to mention the nights!!! it's worse than the south
>pole on this planet...

While this is an interesting observation, I am not sure where the problem
lies. Unless the planet in in synchronous rotation with the sattelite, there
will be friction, and some compensation would be required to keep the
gas colletor in orbit. It would take more (how much more is not clear)
compensation with venus, but the problem has not changed. I agree with your
earlier observation, better to work with what is there. The energy requirements
for moving stuff is outrageous, along with the collection problems.

>Mars however isn't such a problem, its the atmospheric pressure.  Due to the
>small size of mars, the atmosphere would have to be more highly concentrated
>per cubic kilometer than earths to achieve a similar air pressure reading to
>that of earth.  It would be like a very high altitude earth!

No, Mars needs more atmosphere, the proposal was not to collect from there,
but to move to there.
>
>stu :)
>--
>"L'amour qui nous reunita fait tout notre bonheur."
>
>send discourse to [e-mail]

Rich

[e-mail]
Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!uknet!stl!stc!fsb
From: [e-mail] (Frank Stuart Brown)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal,sci.skeptic,sci.space
Subject: Re: Mars Face / General Info.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 17 Mar 92 08:14:20 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (System Administration)
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Frank Stuart Brown)
Organization: STC Telecomms, New Southgate, London, N11 1HB
Lines: 13
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4921 alt.paranormal:4646 sci.skeptic:21924 sci.space:27974


Thanks for all the mail. I should have said billions, and yes I know
the sun will become a red giant and swallow up the inner planets, but
isn't it going to shrink before it expands?

CLAATU BARADA NICTO


--
"On the plains of hesitation lie the bones of countless millions, of those
who stopped to view their success, and while resting - died!"
<[e-mail]>  ||  !mcsun!ukc!stc!fsb
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!emory!athena.cs.uga.edu!rosalyn!david
From: [e-mail] (David Gundlach)
Newsgroups: alt.postmodern,alt.religion.kibology,alt.sex,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: La, la, la...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 17 Mar 92 17:15:52 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: University of Georgia Statistics Department
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Newsgroups: alt.postmodern,alt.religion.kibology,alt.sex,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: La, la, la...
Summary: still going...
Expires:
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender:
Followup-To:
Distribution: world
Organization: University of Georgia Statistics Department
Keywords:

And then in <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Daniel Dise) said...
% In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Bat Rastard) writes:
% >In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Michael Wasylik) writes...
% >>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (David Gundlach) writes:
% >>>And then in <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Bat Rastard) said...
% >>>% In article <[e-mail]>, <[e-mail]> writes...
% >>>% >In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail]
% >>>% >(Tom Hamill) says:
% >>>% >>In article [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
% >>>% >>>In article [e-mail] (Paul D Evans) writes:
% >>>% >>>>In article [e-mail] (Chris Colby) writes:
% >>>% >>>>> In article [e-mail] (Lawrence C. Foard) writes:
% >>>% >>>>> >In article [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
% >>>% >>>>>
% >>>% >>>>> >>  GEE, I'M SURE GLAD THAT .SIGNATURE VIRUSES ARE PASSE.
% >>>% >>>>>
% >>>% >>>>> >They will just mutate to get around it!
% >>>% >>>>>
% >>>% >>>>> >Evolution is god!
% >>>% >>>>> Sanitation is fraud:
% >>>% >>>>Sandinistas ate Maude.
% >>>% >>>Santa Claus baits God.
% >>>% >>>Satan Claws Bates Dog!  Film At Eleven!
% >>>% >>Satin draws mates bod.
% >>>% >I sat in Ward's tame knob.
% >>>% I set a weird time bomb.
% >>>I shed a weird tie, Bob...
% >>I shot a wet teen babe.
% >Izod's a wasp trend, Biff.
% I drove off a west end cliff
I rode to arrest a lift.

:-D
--
David Gundlach                [e-mail]
System Support and Integration        [e-mail]
UGA Statistics                [e-mail]
University of Georgia            [e-mail]
404/542-3289 or 404/542-5232        BITNET: statuga@uga

"I think, therefore I am wrong." --     me
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!wupost!gumby!destroyer!fmsrl7!wreck
From: [e-mail] (R. Cage)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space
Subject: Re: Mars and Venus (The problems associated with terraforming)
Summary: Moving CO2 from Venus might be a good idea.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 17 Mar 92 17:37:50 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Ford Motor Company Scientific Research Labs, Dearborn, MI
Lines: 49
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4923 sci.space:27982

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (stu) writes:
>Long and arduous process, it would be more effective to work out some sort of
>common chemical reaction to convert the atmosphere on-site.

The biggest problem I can see with this is that conversion on-site
would leave a large amount of reduced material just waiting to snarf
up whatever oxygen you freed, or lime to re-create carbonates from
freed CO2, or minerals eagerly waiting to re-hydrate.  Fresh material
shipped in (esp. free oxygen) will not have so many ready-made
sinks to eat it as creation on-site would.

>>     I recently read an article about verious terraforming methods that could
>> be used on Mars, such as generating CFCs to produce a greenhouse effect to
>> raise the temperature, extracting oxygen from the SO2 in the rocks, how
>> much nitrogen would be needed as a buffer to prevent oxygen toxicity...

CFC's are a pretty good idea.  They plug different holes in the
greenhouse blanket than CO2 does.  Fluorocarbons might be even better,
if they are more stable, and they will allow the formation of an ozone
layer for UV protection.

>That would have to be one tough balloon to withstand the near vaccum of space
>without rupturing, It might be better to use pressurised cylinders (very big
>ones mind you) the siphon Idea sounds like a good one.

If you are shipping CO2 you don't need a balloon at all.  It can
be frozen as dry ice and shipped behind a sunshade.  The problem
is not shipping, it is the enormous scale of the task.

>Mars however isn't such a problem, its the atmospheric pressure.  Due to the
>small size of mars, the atmosphere would have to be more highly concentrated
>per cubic kilometer than earths to achieve a similar air pressure reading to
>that of earth.  It would be like a very high altitude earth!

No, you just need to pile about 2.5 times more of it on top to
get the same surface-level pressure.  That will help create a
better greenhouse.

It is rather unlikely that we will try terraforming Mars for
anything except fun; by the time we will be able to do it, we
will be able to do so many other things for living space that
we won't bother with making over dead planets for that purpose.

>stu :)
--
Russ Cage              [e-mail]  [e-mail]
  *  When Ford pays me for my opinions, THEN they can call them theirs. *

                           _Bad_ cop.  No donut.
Path: ns-mx!uunet!think.com!spdcc!das-news.harvard.edu!husc-news.harvard.edu!husc-news!baker4
From: [e-mail] (David Baker)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.pagan,alt.paranormal,talk.religion.newage
Subject: Re: Creating Peace On Earth by 2000 !
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 17 Mar 92 18:44:06 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
 <[e-mail]><[e-mail]><[e-mail]>
Organization: Non-Sequitur Association of America.  Pizza.
Lines: 42
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Nntp-Posting-Host: husc8.harvard.edu
In-reply-to: [e-mail]'s message of 16 Mar 92 16:49:27 GMT

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:

   In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (David Baker) writes:
   >In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:
   >
   >   Your own god loves you; my personal goddess loves
   >   me.  Through this convincing that something out there loves us no matter
   >   what, hopefully things will improve.
   >
   >I have a question, admittedly somewhat off the topic: why does "this
   >convincing" need to take place in order for anything to happen?
   >
   >Just asking.
   >David

   I suppose it's the typical old saw that if you don't love yourself or
   think you're worthy of love, then it's hard for you to act in a loving
   way toward other people and things.  We have to be comvinced as a group
   that we are worth the effort it would take to make things better.

   Regards and blessings,
   Janis C.

   P.S.:  What the HELL was your .sig?

OK, granted that it is psychologically important to feel loved, why is it
necessary to construct (believe in, whatever) some extra-material being to do
the loving?

David
--
======================================+=======================================+
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 |      \    |      \    |      \     :  jumping up and down and counting     :
 |      |    |      |    |      |     :  backwards from 87,000,002 to -3 is   :
 |      |    |      /    |      /     :  my game.                             :
 |      |    +------     +------      :                                       :
 |      |    |           |      \     :   brought to you by the Non-Sequitur  :
 |      |    |           |      |     :        Association of America         :
 |      /    |           |      /     :   --   We may not make sense,   --    :
-+------     -          -+------      :   --     but we like pizza.     --    :
======================================+=======================================+
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From: [e-mail] (Joshua Abbey)
Newsgroups: alt.postmodern,alt.religion.kibology,alt.sex,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: La, la, la...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 17 Mar 92 18:24:55 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Harvard University Science Center
Lines: 38
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Nntp-Posting-Host: husc9.harvard.edu

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Bat Rastard) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Michael Wasylik) writes...
>>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (David Gundlach) writes:
>>>And then in <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Bat Rastard) said...
>>>% In article <[e-mail]>, <[e-mail]> writes...
>>>% >In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail]
>>>% >(Tom Hamill) says:
>>>% >>In article [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>>% >>>In article [e-mail] (Paul D Evans) writes:
>>>% >>>>In article [e-mail] (Chris Colby) writes:
>>>% >>>>> In article [e-mail] (Lawrence C. Foard) writes:
>>>% >>>>> >In article [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>>% >>>>>
>>>% >>>>> >>  GEE, I'M SURE GLAD THAT .SIGNATURE VIRUSES ARE PASSE.
>>>% >>>>>
>>>% >>>>> >They will just mutate to get around it!
>>>% >>>>>
>>>% >>>>> >Evolution is god!
>>>% >>>>> Sanitation is fraud:
>>>% >>>>Sandinistas ate Maude.
>>>% >>>Santa Claus baits God.
>>>% >>>Satan Claws Bates Dog!  Film At Eleven!
>>>% >>Satin draws mates bod.
>>>% >I sat in Ward's tame knob.
>>>% I set a weird time bomb.
>>>I shed a weird tie, Bob...
>>I shot a wet teen babe.
>Izod's a wasp trend, Biff.
I saw a rasp tend a skiff!

                -Josh


--
==)--------------      [e-mail]   (Josh Abbey)
                "Ashes and diamonds, foe and friend,
                 We were all equal in the end."  - Pink Floyd
                                      --------------(==
Path: ns-mx!uunet!decwrl!netcomsv!mork!sheaffer
From: [e-mail] (Robert Sheaffer)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: The Talmud as Given by Judas Iscariot
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 17 Mar 92 18:54:05 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <![e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)
Lines: 58

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Don Allen) writes:
>In article <![e-mail]> [e-mail] (Robert Sheaffer) writes:
>>>
>>Eduard "Billy" Meier of Switzerland is the perpetrator of the notorious
>>"UFOs from the Pleiades" hoax.
>
>So tell us oh learned and wise Govt agent Shaeffer..just HOW did Billy "hoax"
>the Pleiadian craft?
>
       With his camera, dear Liza, dear Liza, dear Liza, with
       his camera dear Liza, dear Liza, dear Liza, with his camera.

       By the way, please let my Govt. handlers know what an effective
       job I'm doing. I need a raise!

>>
>>
>>
>>"Semjase" is the name of Meier's extraterrestrial girlfriend.
>>
>
>Correction oh wise and learned sage of the would-be NSA boot-licker set..
>
>Semjase=Pleiadian female
>Semjasa=her FATHER
>

      I guess I just can't tell my extraterrestrials without a scorecard.

      (If Semjase is the father of the white race, which Pleiadean is
      the father of the blacks?)
>
>
>>        Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - [e-mail]
>>
>> Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!
>>
>>               "The facts can only take you so far in this case.",
>>      - Oliver Stone, discussing "JFK" on CBS-TV's "48 Hours", Feb. 5, 1992
>
>Is this .sig PC? was it approved by your "handlers"?

        You do not have clearance to receive that information.

>-* Don Allen *-               // Only   | Are you ready for SETI?
>Internet: [e-mail]  \X/ Amiga   | Oct 12,1992 - ET comes to NM
>UUCP: .........uunet!peora!bilver!dona  | The *real* "October Surprise"
>Psi-Tech and alien brain-wave research -- Whats going on at Los Alamos?


--

        Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - [e-mail]

 Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!

               "The facts can only take you so far in this case.",
      - Oliver Stone, discussing "JFK" on CBS-TV's "48 Hours", Feb. 5, 1992
Path: ns-mx!uunet!decwrl!netcomsv!mork!sheaffer
From: [e-mail] (Robert Sheaffer)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: The Talmud as Given by Judas Iscariot
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 17 Mar 92 18:57:20 GMT
References: <![e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)
Lines: 586

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Steve Urich) writes:
>
>?>So tell us oh learned and wise Govt agent Shaeffer..just HOW did Billy "hoax"
>?>the Pleiadian craft?
>
>    Thats what I would like to know... All these so called professional
>video technowizards with there whinning about being a hoax. Proof it!
>I know! Billy is really `The Lawnmower Man' and he did it all in Virtual
>Reality. :-))) Really!!! Its all `Virtual Reality' on Film. Mind over matter
>thats why you couldn't see any fishing line :-).
>

        Somebody posted this here recently. It may answer your question.


Article 4808 of alt.alien.visitors:
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From: [e-mail] (Michael Corbin)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Eduard "billy" Meier - Photo Evidence
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 8 Mar 92 19:00:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: paranet.115886.29BA7913
Sender: [e-mail] (newsout1.26)
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Lines: 108


 * Forwarded from "ParaNet General Echo"
 * Originally from Vladimir Godic
 * Originally dated 03-07-92 13:40


In 1981, the late Frank Gillespie wrote the following review of "UFO
....Contact from the Pleiades."  In light of recent Paranet discussions on this
very outdated subject, I will repeat Frank's article here.  Before doing so, I
would like to point out that Frank Gillespie was a scientist with the
Commonwealth Scientific & Industrial Research Organisation (CSIRO).  Being a
photographic expert, Frank was, for many years, a scientific advisor to
Australian UFO groups.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Part 1:

             "UFO...CONTACT FROM THE PLEIADES Vol.1"

The presentation of this UFO contactee story is quite different from any of its
predecessors.  The backbone of the book is a series of twenty two flying saucer
photographs, supported by a rather sketchy and disjointed text; and padded out
by personal photographs, snatches of cosmonaut and other philosophy, and seven
pages invoking tenuous connections with the pyramids, the parthenon, and
verious other ancient structures.  There are also some visually impressive
computer generated images, for which the interpretations may or may not have
been quoted correctly.  The credit for the preparation and publishing of this
book is shared by a team of nine indivduals and four companies; but all of the
flying saucer photographs are attributed to Eduard "Billy" Meier, a
farmer/caretaker of Inwel, Switzerland.

A connected series of photographs such as this can be likened to a chain, where
the failure of a single link distrupts the entire chain. Rather ironically, the
very first photograph in the book is the one in which evidence of fakery can be
most clearly seen, so that detectable discrepancies in later photographs only
go to confirm that a superimposition technique such as front projection has
undoubtedly been used.  The first picture, which is reproduced again precisely
half way through the book, is one of a series supposedly taken just before
sunset on 29th March, 1976.  It has the appearance of a scene largely in
shadow, but lit from the right by a reddish sun, which also flashes brightly
off the upper section of the spacecraft. However, this apparent illumination
terminates abruptly along the line of the distant hilltops, along with the
transition from pale blue sky to brownish hills.  Close examination reveals
that this appearance of sunshine has been achieved by displacing the magenta
and yellow colour image laterally from the cyan and black, thus generating an
orange flash on one side of the tree limbs.  The effect of this technique is
apparent only where the background is lacking in magenta and yellow - in this
case, the sky.  The question arises, was this the result of poor printing
technique, or was it deliberately done, either before or after the picture
reached the hands of the printers?  Consider the evidence; that the only
pictures in the book which have this defect to any serious extent are the ones
in this particular series, that the extent of the defect is far beyond what any
reputable colour reprodcer would allow, and that the effect of the
misregistration is so pronounced that it could not possibly have been missed.
As to who was responsible for the fakery, the buck appears to stop at the
colour reproducers, because in the second printing of this picture, the colour
displacement has been done in the wrong direction, and the trees appear to be
sunlit from the left. The printers would have used the blocks as received, on
equipment which automatically preserved the registration of the four colours.

It would be tedious to go through all the individual discrepancies in the
various pictures, particularly as the book pages are not numbered for
reference.  Suffice to say that the faults to look for come into the following
categories:

1. Lighting direction discrepancies between the background and the spacecraft.
2. Overcast sky and flatly lit ground scene, with a brightly lit craft.
3. Correct exposure for the craft, when the scene is badly underexposed.
4. Craft in better focus than any part of the scene.
5. Lack of ground shadow cast by the craft.
6. Inconsistent lighting between shots supposedly taken at the same time.
7. No signs of life in any of the UFO pictures.

The first five of these faults all indicate that a superimposition technique
has been used, probably involving models for the spacecraft. Confirmatory
evidence comes from the last saucer picture in the book, where the painted on
"portholes" are fairly obvious.  The most likely technique used for the
superimposition is front projection, which is widely used in the United States
today. With this technique, you can have your wedding day photographs taken in
front of the Salt Lake Tabernacle, even though the ceremony took place in a
Brooklyn registry office.  The technique is virtually undetectable, except when
mistakes are made, such as those listed above.

The text of this book is also not immune to criticism.  The claim is made, for
instance, that the focussing of the camera used for all the saucer stills was
jammed just short of infinity.  This is just the setting which would be used to
obtain maximum clarity in a landscape photograph, so it becomes a rather hollow
excuse for the poor focussing evident in many of the pictures.  The captions of
the two micrograph pictures are nonsensical - all metals have adequate
conductivity for scanning electron microscopy, but the specimen in the picture
exhibits signs of poor conductivity, suggesting an improperly prepared
nonmetallic object; and the machining in the other micrograph is not only very
poor, but it appears to have been done by an unsuitable technique.  It is
repeatedly claimed that an abundance of pictures are available for publication,
which makes it hard to understand why five of them have been printed twice, for
no good reason.  Looking at the drawings of the various craft, one would expect
from their clarity and detail, that they would be accurate. This appears to be
so for type 5 craft, and for type 2 other than the one in the movie sequence,
but it is definitely not the case for the remaining variations.  The claims
made for the movie segment deserve some attention.  Ask any film producer, and
he will tell you that these are all standard effects with a tripod mounted
camera, involving only simply stop/start and time-lapse techniques.

Continuing in part 2....

--
Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]


Article 4809 of alt.alien.visitors:
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From: [e-mail] (Michael Corbin)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Eduard 'billy' Meier
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 8 Mar 92 19:00:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: paranet.115887.29BA7916
Sender: [e-mail] (newsout1.26)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - <ParaNet(sm) , Arvada CO
Lines: 78


 * Forwarded from "ParaNet General Echo"
 * Originally from Vladimir Godic
 * Originally dated 03-07-92 14:14

Part 2:

The scientific investigation is one aspect of this book which worries me. Apart
from acknowledging the part played by De Anza Systems Inc., the book does not
name any of the persons involved; but one would expect an honourable scientist
to revoke any abuse of his professional status.  I can only conclude,
therefore, that some, at least, of my colleagues, have allowed themselves to be
so blinded by state-of-the-art technology, that they cannot see how easy it is
to cheat such a system.  Relying entirely on a computer for UFO photograph
analysis is like staking your reputation on the computer beating all comers at
chess.  Anyone knowing or guessing the factors on which the computer
calculations are based, can devise techniques to force incorrect analyses from
the comptuer.  For example, distance and size assessment are both based on edge
sharpness data, which can be readily manipulated to give any desired result
during a superimposition.  Regarding the metal, biological and mineral
specimens left by the cosmonauts, there is a technique called isotope analysis
now available, which will determine with absolute certainty whether a material
is of extraterrestrial origin.  There are many places where it can be carried
out; and some of these must be known to the American scientists allegedly
involved in the investigation. Significantly, no mention is made of this
technique being used.

This scientific aspect is so important, that, at the risk of boring layman
readers, I will deal specifically with some of the misconceptions which appear
in the book.  Electron microscopy always sounds impressive, but it would be
hard to conceive of a greater exercise in futility than using it on colour film
images.  A scanning microscope would show only the topography of the emulsion
surface, wheras in a transmission microscope, the dye materials of the image
would be indistinguishable from the gelatin medium.  Three dimensionality can
be detected with reasonable certainty from an original photograph, taken under
known conditions.  However, UFOs have frequently been assessed as three
dimensional from analysis of copied photographs, which are, by definition,
photographs of photographs having only two effective dimensions. Alternatively,
skillful artists routinely transfer attributes of three dimensionality to
canvas, sufficient to fool any computer analysis. In colour film, the image is
composed of three dyes, each of which is visible to the eye. There is no other
material present with which any invisible image could be formed; and to suggest
that some mysterious radiation produced such an image is surely ridiculous.
Similarly, it is foolhardy to suggest that any wire or thread supporting a
model must show up with computer enhancement.  A 300mm diameter foam plastic
model, for instance, could easily be supported by a single fibre from a nylon
stocking, which, at 2 metres from the camera, would be well beyond the
resolving power of its optical system.  A general characteristic of film grains
is that they overlap - it is only thus that a true black image can be built up.
 This is especially true of colour film, where each of the tree emulsions has
to be capable of developing as a solid colour.  Another characteristic of film
grains is that once they are developed, there is no way to tell how or when
they were exposed; hence film grain analysis gives no information about the use
of multiple exposures, or of most darkroom techniques.  In conclusion computer
techniques have their place, but they cannot substitute entirely for careful
visual examination of any UFO photograph.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

The above article which appeared in the `UFO Research Australia Newsletter,"
Vol.2 No.1, Jan-Feb 1981, is one of many written at the time.  Other
individuals and organisations wrote expose as well, so the above is not an
isolated critique. I reproduce Frank Gillespie's article here in an attempt to
show those who have only been subjected to pro Billy Meier arguments that
scientific evaluations revealed a very different story.

I think it a shame that time is wasted on cut and dried hoaxes when there is so
much that is presently unexplained and far more deserving of our time and
attention.

In closing, I would like to state that the above ends my participation in the
Billy Meier farce.  I will not enter into any further discussions, I value my
time far too much to debate proven hoaxes.

--
Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]


Article 21850 of sci.skeptic:
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From: [e-mail] (Len Bucuvalas x5363)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
Subject: The Talmud as Given by Judas Iscariot
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 12 Mar 92 19:21:58 GMT
Sender: [e-mail]
Lines: 293

I was sent this by a friend to post.  I find it challanging and believeable
in light of how the bible has been edited over the years from the original as
written by the apostles.....you decide...the following is a short excerpt
of selected sections.

Perhaps this should also go to the archeology and anthropology groups???

Len
=========================================================================


The Talmud of Jmmanuel

-------

First translation of the Aramaic script written by Judas Iscariot, the
disciple of Jmmanuel (Jesus), discovered in 1963 in the burial cave of
Jmmanuel.

The Clear Translation in English and German.

Translated into German by Isa Rashid and Eduard Meier, and translated into
English by Julie Ziegler and B. L. Greene.

-------

Dedicated to the man known to many as Jesus, known herein as Jmmanuel,
in the hope that the truths that he shared may be heard clearly today.

-------

  Copyright 1992 Wild Flower Press Box 230893 Tigard, OR 97224
  800/366-0264.

-------

Selected Portions to Raise Your Consciousness:

-------

6:10  "Be aware also, that through this sacred thing the almighty power of the
spirit always dwells within yourself.
6:11  "Therefore pray as one who knows, and thus pray as follows:
6:12  "'My spirit, you are omnipotent.
6:13  "'Your name be holy.
6:14  "'Let your kingdom incarnate itself in me.
6:15  "'Let your power unfold itself within me, on Earth and in the heavens.
6:16  "'Give me today my daily bread, so that I recognize my guilt and the
truth.
6:17  "'And lead me not into temptation and confusion, but deliver me from
error.
6:18  "'For yours is the kingdom within me and the power and the knowledge
forever. Amen.'
6:19  "When you pray to your spirit, it will give you what you request; trust
with knowledge, and you will receive.
6:20  "However, if you believe in the false teachings that the power and
spirit do not dwell within you, then you will be without knowledge and will
live in spiritual poverty.
6:21  "Though you will also receive now and then what you in your false belief
request from misused sacred things, idols and gods, you will receive only out
of your strong false belief, without knowledge of the real truth.
6:22  "Truly, I say to you: Blessed are only those who serve the actual truth
and knowledge, because only they receive in honesty.

-----

1:1   This is the book and mystery of Jmmanuel, which means "the one with
godly knowledge," who is a son of Joseph, of Jacob, the distant descendant of
David, who was a descendant of Abraham, whose lineage traces back to Adam, the
father of one of Earth's human races, who was begotten by Semjasa, the leader
of the celestial sons who were the guardian angels of god, the great ruler of
the distant travelers.
1:2   Semjasa, the celestial son and guardian angel of god, the great ruler of
the distant travelers who traversed the expanse of the universe, together with
a terrestrial woman, begot Adam, the father of the white human race.
1:3   Adam took for himself an earth wife and begot Seth.
1:4   Seth begot Enos.

1:80  Jacob begot Joseph.

-----

3:26  As John the Baptist thus spoke, behold, Jmmanuel of Galilee then came to
him at the Jordan, to be baptized by him.
3:27  John, however, refused him and spoke, "I certainly need to be baptized
by you, because you possess greater knowledge than I, and you come to me?"
3:28  But Jmmanuel answered him, "Let it happen so now, because it is fitting
for us to fulfill all justice, since we are both sons of the earth."
3:29  So John consented and baptized him.
3:30  When Jmmanuel had been baptized, he soon came out of the water of the
Jordan, and behold, a metallic light dropped from the sky and descended
steeply over the Jordan.
3:31  Consequently they all fell on their faces and pressed them into the sand
while a voice from the metallic light spoke,
3:32  "This is my beloved son with whom I am well pleased. He will be the king
of truth who will lift this human race to knowledge."
3:33  Behold, after these words Jmmanuel entered into the metallic light,
which climbed into the sky, surrounded by fire and smoke, and passed over the
lifeless sea, as the singing of the metallic light soon faded away.
3:34  After that, Jmmanuel was no longer seen for forty days and nights.

-----

4:46  "In the name of god the law was issued to create you so that you may
serve as prophet and pioneer of wisdom for these human races.
4:47  "Fulfill your mission unperturbed in the face of irrationality,
disbelieving people and false teachings of the scribes and Pharisees.
4:48  "Hence, following the fulfillment of your mission, centuries and two
millennia will pass before the truth of your knowledge brought among the
people will be recognized and disseminated by some humans.
4:49  "Not until the time of space-traveling machines will the truth break
through and gradually shake the false teaching that you are the son of god or
Creation.
4:50  "However, this will be the time when we celestial sons begin to reveal
ourselves anew to the human races, since they will have become knowing and
with their acquired power threaten the structure of the heavens."
4:51  Thus they spoke, the celestial sons between the North and the West,
before they took Jmmanuel in the metallic light back to Israel, to the land of
Galilee.

-----

12:19  "Truly, truly, I say to you: These laws of order were given by nature
and should be followed, or human beings will bring death to themselves and to
the masses.
12:20  "This earth can nourish and support five hundred million people of all
the human races. But if these laws are not followed, in two thousand years ten
times five hundred million people will exist, and the earth will not be able
to support them any more.
12:21  "Famines, catastrophes, world wars and epidemics will control the earth,
and the human races will commit suicide, with only a few surviving.
12:22  "Truly, I say to you: There will be wailing and chattering of teeth when
so much human blood is shed upon the sands of the earth that new life forms
will arise from it, which will bring the final horror to mankind.
12:23  "But on this day you have been allowed to receive all good things, and
the laws have been given to you by which you should live.
12:24  "And you should adhere to additional laws, so that you will have
prosperity on earth and peace in your families.
12:25  "Do away with the enforcement of the old law that woman should be
subject to man, since she is a person like a man, with equal rights and
obligations.

-----

25:36  "When at that point someone will say to the people, 'Behold, here is
Jmmanuel, who is the sign of the time,' they should not accept it to be true.
25:37  "Because many a false Jmmanuel and many impostors and false prophets
will rise and do great signs, it becomes possible to lead astray not only
those who seek, believe and err, but also the scholars and intelligent people.
25:38  "Behold, I told you so before, and so it will fulfill itself.
25:39  "Therefore, when impostors and those led astray will say, 'He is in the
desert,' people shall not go there, and when they say, 'Truly, he is in a
chamber,' they shall not accept it as the truth.
25:40  "Since I will certainly return at that time, I will let them recognize
me.
25:41  "This is how the law and destiny want it, and that's the way it will be.
25:42  "Just as lightning starts from its rise and radiates until its setting,
so will be my coming in the future, when I bring the teaching anew and
announce the legions of the celestial sons, when I will have a renewed life
and will again be accused of deception and blasphemy over the breadth of the
world, until the teaching of truth will bring about insight and change in
people.
25:43  "People of all times, beware: where the carcass is, there the vultures
will gather, so watch out.
25:44  "Soon after the grief of that time, sun and moon will lose their luster,
comets will fall from the sky and the powers of the heavens will start to
sway.
25:45  "The structure of the heavens and of the air will be disturbed, and the
land will burn because of the black oil of the earth, ignited by the greed of
the people, and the sky will be dark because of smoke and fire, and so the
weather will break down, and severe cold and many deaths among people, plants
and animals all over the earth will result from people's power senselessly
developed, and people will live with their greed for power and mania and vice.
25:46  "Then there will appear signs in the sky, and all races on earth will
cry and come to see the signs in the clouds of the sky that witness of great
power and strict judgments against irrationality.
25:47  "Since god is the ruler over three human races, the laws and
commandments of Creation will be valid in all eternity through which, as
representation of Creation and human irrationality, people will judge
themselves with anger.
25:48  "People owe their existence to god, who is the ruler over them, so that
they have to follow his commandments and respect him as the greatest king of
wisdom.
25:49  "He will send his guardian angels with loud trumpets that will gather
his followers from all directions, from one end of the earth to the other.
25:50  "Do learn a parable from the fig tree; when its branch puts forth
leaves, you know that summer is near.
25:51  "So it will also be at that time when the people see all of this, they
will know that the end is close at hand.
25:52  "Truly, truly, I say to you: This is how it will be.
25:53  "This human race will not perish until all of this has come about.
25:54  "The heavens and the earth will pass, and so will the universe; but my
words will not pass, because they are words of truth within the laws of
Creation.
25:55  "No one knows the day or hour when all this will happen, neither the
guardian angels, nor god himself, nor I, Jmmanuel, but only providence and
destiny through the laws and commandments of Creation, which possesses the
greatest wisdom.
25:56  "Creation alone rises far above all human races, and it alone deserves
honor and praise, just as it renders honor and praise to the absolute power
above it.
25:57  "If people revere and honor god and recognize only Creation as the
supreme power, they act according to the truth."

-----

27:27  "While we are here together, Juda Ihariot, the son of the Pharisee in
Jerusalem, is hatching a plot against me as to how he can betray me to the
chief priests.
27:28  "While we are gathered here, he is asking the chief priests for the
blood money that they offer for my capture.
27:29  "Thirty pieces of silver are offered to him if they catch me through his
help.
27:30  "While they are forging this plan, they are also hatching the plot
against one among you, since they want to present a culprit to the people.
27:31  "Thus Juda Ihariot, the son of the Pharisee, will turn me over to the
soldiers, and my disciple, Judas Iscariot, is supposed to be considered the
traitor,
27:32  "so that the people will say, 'Behold, these confused people are divided
among themselves and therefore one betrays the other. So, how can the teaching
of Jmmanuel be the truth?'
27:33  "But since Juda Ihariot, the son of the Pharisee, and my disciple, Judas
Iscariot, have almost identical names, the lie of the chief priests will be
accepted from the beginning."

-----

36:29  "Truly, I say to you: Those who understand the truth of this speech and
attain understanding in wisdom are obliged to align their lives with their
destiny of eternal change towards Creation.
36:30  "When people are honest and search, they will not know any preconceived
opinion or prejudice.
36:31  "But the wise know and are aware of the law of the everlasting river of
eternal change; therefore they endeavor to adjust to the great course of
happenings, because they recognize the laws of Creation, that the cycles of
life have to be closed through the determinations of the laws.
36:32  "Wherever life reveals itself, it is based upon the law of the invisible
secret that brings about the eternal change.
36:33  "Whoever disregards and fails to recognize timeless and imperishable
laws and truths will have to suffer evil consequences.
36:34  "Lies and hatred will blind such a person and even entire peoples, and
they will rush into the abyss of their own destruction.
36:35  "A blind, destructive mania will come over them, and the heroes among
them will be the greatest destroyers.
36:36  "Discord will permeate people's entire lives, and there is no longer a
unity or perfection when there is a split.
36:37  "As long as there is imperfection in life, people will have to bear
these consequences: sickness, misery, injustice, need, fighting, strife,
slavery, false sects and exploitation leading to bloodshed and death.
36:38  "So let the human beware and wake up, because the laws of Creation say
that only that which is timeless and everlasting is of permanence, truth and
wisdom, and so it is."

-----

  Copyright 1992 Wild Flower Press Box 230893 Tigard, OR 97224
  800/366-0264.

-----

These are only a few selections from:

THE TALMUD OF JMMANUEL

First translation of the Aramaic script written by Judas Iscariot, the
disciple of Jmmanuel (Jesus), discovered in 1963 in the burial cave of
Jmmanuel.

The Clear Translation in English and German.

Translated into German by Isa Rashid and Eduard Meier, and translated into
English by Julie Ziegler and B. L. Greene.

ISBN 0-926524-12-7.
Library of Congress Catalog Cd. No. 90-34240, First Edition:  1992.

-------

Available from the publisher:

Wild Flower Press
P.O. Box 230893
Tigard, OR 97224
[phone]
$15.95 + $2.50 S/H = $18.45.

*******


----- End Included Message -----


----- End Included Message -----


Article 21857 of sci.skeptic:
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
Path: mork!sheaffer
From: [e-mail] (Robert Sheaffer)
Subject: Re: The Talmud as Given by Judas Iscariot
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 92 23:09:03 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)
References: <[e-mail]>

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Len Bucuvalas x5363) writes:
>I was sent this by a friend to post.  I find it challanging and believeable
>
>=========================================================================
>
>
>The Talmud of Jmmanuel
>
>-------
>
>First translation of the Aramaic script written by Judas Iscariot, the
>disciple of Jmmanuel (Jesus), discovered in 1963 in the burial cave of
>Jmmanuel.
>
>The Clear Translation in English and German.
>
>Translated into German by Isa Rashid and Eduard Meier, and translated into
                                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^
>English by Julie Ziegler and B. L. Greene.
>
I am wondering if this is the same Eduard "Billy" Meier of Switzerland
who has given us the hokey UFO photos that have come to be known as
the "UFO Contact from the Pleiades"??
--

        Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - [e-mail]

 Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!

               "The facts can only take you so far in this case.",
      - Oliver Stone, discussing "JFK" on CBS-TV's "48 Hours", Feb. 5, 1992



--

        Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - [e-mail]

 Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!

               "The facts can only take you so far in this case.",
      - Oliver Stone, discussing "JFK" on CBS-TV's "48 Hours", Feb. 5, 1992
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!utgpu!cunews!wcstom
From: [e-mail] (Tom Hamill)
Newsgroups: alt.postmodern,alt.religion.kibology,alt.sex,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: La, la, la...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 17 Mar 92 19:46:14 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: tom hamill
Followup-To: alt.postmodern,alt.religion.kibology,alt.sex,alt.alien.visitors
Organization: Carleton University, Ottawa, Canada
Lines: 42
Xref: ns-mx alt.postmodern:2351 alt.religion.kibology:1208 alt.sex:58949 alt.alien.visitors:4928

In article [e-mail] (David Gundlach) writes:
>And then in [e-mail] (Daniel Dise) said...
>% In article [e-mail] (Bat Rastard) writes:
>% >In article [e-mail] (Michael Wasylik) writes...
>% >>In article [e-mail] (David Gundlach) writes:
>% >>>And then in [e-mail] (Bat Rastard) said...
>% >>>% In article <[e-mail]> writes...
>% >>>% >In article [e-mail] (Tom Hamill) says:
>% >>>% >>In article [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>% >>>% >>>In article [e-mail] (Paul D Evans) writes:
>% >>>% >>>>In article [e-mail] (Chris Colby) writes:
>% >>>% >>>>> In article [e-mail] (Lawrence C. Foard) writes:
>% >>>% >>>>> >In article [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>% >>>% >>>>>
>% >>>% >>>>> >>  GEE, I'M SURE GLAD THAT .SIGNATURE VIRUSES ARE PASSE.
>% >>>% >>>>>
>% >>>% >>>>> >They will just mutate to get around it!
>% >>>% >>>>>
>% >>>% >>>>> >Evolution is god!
>% >>>% >>>>> Sanitation is fraud:
>% >>>% >>>>Sandinistas ate Maude.
>% >>>% >>>Santa Claus baits God.
>% >>>% >>>Satan Claws Bates Dog!  Film At Eleven!
>% >>>% >>Satin draws mates bod.
>% >>>% >I sat in Ward's tame knob.
>% >>>% I set a weird time bomb.
>% >>>I shed a weird tie, Bob...
>% >>I shot a wet teen babe.
>% >Izod's a wasp trend, Biff.
>% I drove off a west end cliff
>I rode to arrest a lift.
Electrodes tie my wrists.

---tom

l~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~l
l      CRUSH---CompassionRespectUnderstandingSelfHonesty---CRUSH      l
l         How could you have ever lived your life without it?         l
l               Join Now, Apply Within.  Spread the word.             l
l_________________________         ---me, trying to save the world,   l
l [e-mail] l                         from itself.       l
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space
Subject: Re: Mars needs oxygen, Venus has too much.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 17 Mar 92 19:12:49 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Utah State University
Lines: 8
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4929 sci.space:27997

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (john bayko) writes:


> In orbit around Venus, a
> hose with an atmospheric scoop on the end could pump atmosphere into the
> balloon, until the balloon were pressurised enough.

    MEGAMAID !!!        (Space Balls)
Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!uknet!warwick!mrccrc!icdoc!sot-ecs!co90
From: [e-mail] (Oakley C)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: UFOs
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 17 Mar 92 16:23:03 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Lines: 17
Nntp-Posting-Host: carew

In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Jeff Robertson) writes:
>
>Now, I know the Bible mentions only Earth as being blessed with life, but it
>never once EXCLUDED the existance of life elsewhere...so, I'm not too quick
>to discount anyone's UFO experience based on this.


Well, just as a matter of interest, there are 4 words in the Bible relating to extra-terrestrial life or lack of
and these 4 words (pretty difficult to find 4 words in something that has over 65,000) are.....

God of many worlds

Hope that this refutes what the guy says and anyway, I don't recall that the bible says that we are the only
planet blessed with life either. If it does then I apologise for my ignorance.

Cads ----------------> If they aren't out there then who's watching us, huh?
[e-mail]
Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!uknet!warwick!mrccrc!icdoc!sot-ecs!co90
From: [e-mail] (Oakley C)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Q&A on Extraterrestrial Abductions and Visitations
Keywords: Crap
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 17 Mar 92 16:33:07 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Lines: 17
Nntp-Posting-Host: carew

In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Jennifer Bolt) writes:

>Wake up, The universe is to big, and the distances to great for aliens to
>travel back and forth, that is from the Earth back to where ever.  So no
>aliens have probably come to Earth, although it is almost definite that
>life must exist elsewhere.  And as for channeling, lets not drag mystical
>make believe into the endeavors of science.  Maybe some aliens have come
>here, but why or how we may never know, but do you really expect people to
>believe some mystical entity is communicating with you ? Who are you
>Buckaroo Bonzi

Firstly if as we suspect from various reliable sources (try anyone who works at Hangar 18 and site S-4 in Nevada
and anyone who is in department DI55 in England) that aliens are using advanced technology then the distances
aren't too big.
Secondly I think that you mean Buckaroo Banzai (not Bonzi)

Cads ([e-mail]) ---------------> If they aren't out there then who keeps spilling the cat's milk ??
Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!uknet!warwick!mrccrc!icdoc!sot-ecs!co90
From: [e-mail] (Oakley C)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: ? Majestic Twelve ?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 17 Mar 92 16:50:16 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Lines: 9
Nntp-Posting-Host: carew

In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (C. Ian Connolly) writes:

>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (barry.o.olson) writes:
>>You must mean the MJ twelve. these guys are actual descendants of the
>>star people from the planet Marij-juana from the horsehead galaxy.

>No, no - you're thinking of the "Hosehead Nebula"

No. I think you mean HORSEhead (unless the Hosehead Nebula looks like some gardening implement)_
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!orion.oac.uci.edu!hepxvt.ps.uci.edu!cortese
From: [e-mail] (Janis Maria Cortese)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.pagan,alt.paranormal,talk.religion.newage
Subject: Re: Creating Peace On Earth by 2000 !
Keywords: Peace Clock
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 17 Mar 92 21:20:21 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: University of California, Irvine
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (John Emery) writes:
>I wrote:
>
>>>Before world peace is even possible, should not the issue of lack of
>>>peace in the individual be addressed?  Lack of peace stems in the
>>>heart of individuals and manifests to those around.  The introspective
>>>question I see at hand is for the individual: how do I find peace?
>
>Janis Cortese writes:
>
>>You find peace whatever way that works best for you.  I may find peace
>>through a different means.
>
>It has been the only way I have found peace.  I would say, Janis, not that
>I choose this way because it worked best.  Rather, Jesus reached out to
>me drew me to Himself.  Even though I resisted, He gently reminded me that
>He loved me and had all I needed.  When I finally surrendered to Him, His
>peace simply followed.
>
>>>Amongst the waring that goes on in my soul, I have found where my source
>>>of peace comes from.  I would invite one to investigate Romans 5:1 and
>>>Ephesians 2:14 in the Holy Bible.
>>
>>I won't get into this.  All I *will* say is that the Bible also says
>>that I am in subjugation to men.  How can I find peace in a book that
>>says such things about me?
>
>Please share what you are referring to, Janis.

Oh, how about "In pain shall you bring forth children.  You shall remain
in subjugation to your husband all your life, but your wishes shall be
for him."

How about when Lot sent his two virgin daughters out into a ravening mob
of men so they would stop beating down his door?

How about "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live?"

How about "And the men of the city shall stone her with stones?"

If you can't come up with examples of blatant misogyny on your own
from the Bible, I can only conclude that you never read it.
>
>
>>There certainly is.  Your own god loves you; my personal goddess loves
>>me.  Through this convincing that something out there loves us no matter
>>what, hopefully things will improve.
>>
>>We will, however, have to make our own peace.  There is no book or deity
>>out there that will make things all better with a wave of a magic wand.
>>WE have to do it -- all of it.  So let's roll up our sleeves and get to
>>work, people.
>
>Janis, if your personal goddess loves you, why doesn't this goddess give
>you peace?  And how do you serve this goddess to show your love?

Because peace comes from inside.  There isn't some deity out there like
a security blanket who can make everything all better.  It's my
responsibility to find my peace; my goddess only shows me the way.  She
won't do the work for me.  She's not a tranquilizer, or a little fairy
tale that says, " . . . and they lived happily ever after."  She only
points the direction out; *I* must walk the road.  She knows full well
that doing all the work is not healthy for me.  Like any mother, she
knows that a child will mature only through making its own mistakes.
She refuses to coddle.

I serve this goddess by being the best person I can be, and being as
understanding as I can, and not hating or being mean.  I serve by
creating as many beautiful things as I can -- music, art, hardcrafts --
to improve this world and make it more enriching for others.  However,
she doesn't require that I make myself a doormat.  My goddess doesn't
want those who love her to be doormats, or surrender to ANYTHING.

>
>Jesus promises to roll up His sleeves and work in our life.  That's what
>He's all about.  I look back over my life and have found without Him I
>have had a pretty bad track record of bringing myself peace.
>
>>Regards and blessings,
>>Janis C.
>
>Take care,
>
>John
>[e-mail]

I'm sorry you were unable to bring peace to yourself, John.  It's a pity
that you had to go outside yourself.  If you had had more faith in what
you were capable of, you might have been suprised at what you could
accomplish.

Blessings,
Janis
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From: [e-mail] (Adam Dray)
Newsgroups: alt.postmodern,alt.religion.kibology,alt.sex,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: La, la, la...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 17 Mar 92 21:05:26 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (News Administrator)
Organization: Department Of Math & Computer Science, Kent State University
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In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Tom Hamill) writes:
|> In article [e-mail] (David Gundlach) writes:
|> >And then in [e-mail] (Daniel Dise) said...
|> >% In article [e-mail] (Bat Rastard) writes:
|> >% >In article [e-mail] (Michael Wasylik) writes...
|> >% >>In article [e-mail] (David Gundlach) writes:
|> >% >>>And then in [e-mail] (Bat Rastard) said...
|> >% >>>% In article <[e-mail]> writes...
|> >% >>>% >In article [e-mail] (Tom Hamill) says:
|> >% >>>% >>In article [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
|> >% >>>% >>>In article [e-mail] (Paul D Evans) writes:
|> >% >>>% >>>>In article [e-mail] (Chris Colby) writes:
|> >% >>>% >>>>> In article [e-mail] (Lawrence C. Foard) writes:
|> >% >>>% >>>>> >In article [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
|> >% >>>% >>>>>
|> >% >>>% >>>>> >>  GEE, I'M SURE GLAD THAT .SIGNATURE VIRUSES ARE PASSE.
|> >% >>>% >>>>>
|> >% >>>% >>>>> >They will just mutate to get around it!
|> >% >>>% >>>>>
|> >% >>>% >>>>> >Evolution is god!
|> >% >>>% >>>>> Sanitation is fraud:
|> >% >>>% >>>>Sandinistas ate Maude.
|> >% >>>% >>>Santa Claus baits God.
|> >% >>>% >>>Satan Claws Bates Dog!  Film At Eleven!
|> >% >>>% >>Satin draws mates bod.
|> >% >>>% >I sat in Ward's tame knob.
|> >% >>>% I set a weird time bomb.
|> >% >>>I shed a weird tie, Bob...
|> >% >>I shot a wet teen babe.
|> >% >Izod's a wasp trend, Biff.
|> >% I drove off a west end cliff
|> >I rode to arrest a lift.
|> Electrodes tie my wrists.
Elephants dive off rats.
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!cs.yale.edu!cs.yale.edu!judge-jesse
From: [e-mail] (Jesse Wayne Judge)
Newsgroups: alt.postmodern,alt.religion.kibology,alt.sex,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: La, la, la...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 17 Mar 92 22:03:00 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Usenet News)
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Originator: [e-mail]
Nntp-Posting-Host: minerva.cis.yale.edu

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Adam Dray) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Tom Hamill) writes:
>|> In article [e-mail] (David Gundlach) writes:
>|> >And then in [e-mail] (Daniel Dise) said...
>|> >% In article [e-mail] (Bat Rastard) writes:
>|> >% >In article [e-mail] (Michael Wasylik) writes...
>|> >% >>In article [e-mail] (David Gundlach) writes:
>|> >% >>>And then in [e-mail] (Bat Rastard) said...
>|> >% >>>% In article <[e-mail]> writes...
>|> >% >>>% >In article [e-mail] (Tom Hamill) says:
>|> >% >>>% >>In article [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>|> >% >>>% >>>In article [e-mail] (Paul D Evans) writes:
>|> >% >>>% >>>>In article [e-mail] (Chris Colby) writes:
>|> >% >>>% >>>>> In article [e-mail] (Lawrence C. Foard) writes:
>|> >% >>>% >>>>> >In article [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>|> >% >>>% >>>>>
>|> >% >>>% >>>>> >>  GEE, I'M SURE GLAD THAT .SIGNATURE VIRUSES ARE PASSE.
>|> >% >>>% >>>>>
>|> >% >>>% >>>>> >They will just mutate to get around it!
>|> >% >>>% >>>>>
>|> >% >>>% >>>>> >Evolution is god!
>|> >% >>>% >>>>> Sanitation is fraud:
>|> >% >>>% >>>>Sandinistas ate Maude.
>|> >% >>>% >>>Santa Claus baits God.
>|> >% >>>% >>>Satan Claws Bates Dog!  Film At Eleven!
>|> >% >>>% >>Satin draws mates bod.
>|> >% >>>% >I sat in Ward's tame knob.
>|> >% >>>% I set a weird time bomb.
>|> >% >>>I shed a weird tie, Bob...
>|> >% >>I shot a wet teen babe.
>|> >% >Izod's a wasp trend, Biff.
>|> >% I drove off a west end cliff
>|> >I rode to arrest a lift.
>|> Electrodes tie my wrists.
>Elephants dive off rats.


--
###            the Waste Machine            ###
###           [e-mail]           ###
###            [e-mail]            ###
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!wupost!darwin.sura.net!convex!news.utdallas.edu!tamsun!zeus.tamu.edu!pdj7631
From: [e-mail] (JONES, PAUL DAVID)
Newsgroups: alt.postmodern,alt.religion.kibology,alt.sex,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: La, la, la...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 17 Mar 92 21:17:00 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Followup-To: alt.postmodern
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News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

`In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Adam Dray) writes...
`>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Tom Hamill) writes:
`>|> In article [e-mail] (David Gundlach) writes:
`>|> >And then in [e-mail] (Daniel Dise) said...
`>|> >% In article [e-mail] (Bat Rastard) writes:
`>|> >% >In article [e-mail] (Michael Wasylik) writes...
`>|> >% >>In article [e-mail] (David Gundlach) writes:
`>|> >% >>>And then in [e-mail] (Bat Rastard) said...
`>|> >% >>>% In article <[e-mail]> writes...
`>|> >% >>>% >In article [e-mail] (Tom Hamill) says:
`>|> >% >>>% >>In article [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
`>|> >% >>>% >>>In article [e-mail] (Paul D Evans) writes:
`>|> >% >>>% >>>>In article [e-mail] (Chris Colby) writes:
`>|> >% >>>% >>>>> In article [e-mail] (Lawrence C. Foard) writes:
`>|> >% >>>% >>>>> >In article [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
`>|> >% >>>% >>>>>
`>|> >% >>>% >>>>> >>  GEE, I'M SURE GLAD THAT .SIGNATURE VIRUSES ARE PASSE.
`>|> >% >>>% >>>>>
`>|> >% >>>% >>>>> >They will just mutate to get around it!
`>|> >% >>>% >>>>>
`>|> >% >>>% >>>>> >Evolution is god!
`>|> >% >>>% >>>>> Sanitation is fraud:
`>|> >% >>>% >>>>Sandinistas ate Maude.
`>|> >% >>>% >>>Santa Claus baits God.
`>|> >% >>>% >>>Satan Claws Bates Dog!  Film At Eleven!
`>|> >% >>>% >>Satin draws mates bod.
`>|> >% >>>% >I sat in Ward's tame knob.
`>|> >% >>>% I set a weird time bomb.
`>|> >% >>>I shed a weird tie, Bob...
`>|> >% >>I shot a wet teen babe.
`>|> >% >Izod's a wasp trend, Biff.
`>|> >% I drove off a west end cliff
`>|> >I rode to arrest a lift.
`>|> Electrodes tie my wrists.
`>Elephants dive off rats.
I lift knife, off frats.
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!orion.oac.uci.edu!hepxvt.ps.uci.edu!cortese
From: [e-mail] (Janis Maria Cortese)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.pagan,alt.paranormal,talk.religion.newage
Subject: Re: Creating Peace On Earth by 2000 !
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 17 Mar 92 22:47:46 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: University of California, Irvine
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (David Baker) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:
>
>   In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (David Baker) writes:
>   >In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:
>   >
>   >   Your own god loves you; my personal goddess loves
>   >   me.  Through this convincing that something out there loves us no matter
>   >   what, hopefully things will improve.
>   >
>   >I have a question, admittedly somewhat off the topic: why does "this
>   >convincing" need to take place in order for anything to happen?
>   >
>   >Just asking.
>   >David
>
>   I suppose it's the typical old saw that if you don't love yourself or
>   think you're worthy of love, then it's hard for you to act in a loving
>   way toward other people and things.  We have to be comvinced as a group
>   that we are worth the effort it would take to make things better.
>
>   Regards and blessings,
>   Janis C.
>
>   P.S.:  What the HELL was your .sig?
>
>OK, granted that it is psychologically important to feel loved, why is it
>necessary to construct (believe in, whatever) some extra-material being to do
>the loving?
>
>David

It shouldn't be, and the fact that it IS necessary for a lot of people
bugs me, too.  I should have explained my view of what my goddess is.
There does exist a "time line" of sorts in which I will do the best
thing for a particular situation (I understand that this is a vague way
to put it, but lest ye accuse me of not being scieitific, I have a BS in
physics from Penn State, another BS in astronomy fromthe same place, and
a MS in physics from UCI, so I'm aware that I'm not using these terms
strictly).  I like the feeling that there exists a way for every
situation to be best resolved, and I find comfort in the fact that I can
do it.  My goddess is no extra-material being; I "believe" in and
worship NO ONE.

Many people, however, DO find it important to have some being somewhere
"love" them.

Blessings,
Janis C.


Path: ns-mx!uunet!think.com!rpi!usenet.coe.montana.edu!news.u.washington.edu!uw-beaver!pullen
From: [e-mail] (Walter D. Pullen)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal
Subject: XBITMAP: 7 Crop Circle Patterns (128x128)
Summary: Bitmap of modern crop circles and descriptions/interpretations
Keywords: Circles in the fields
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 17 Mar 92 23:49:03 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: University of Washington Computer Science
Lines: 148
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4938 alt.paranormal:4652


Here's a bitmap of seven various crop circle patterns that have
appeared recently, at least within the last year or so, in various
places. I made this yesterday (while Mercury was going retrograde)
using the Unix bitmap(1) program. If you have X windows, for a cool
looking mystical, meditative root background, extract the text between
the cut-here's and save it to "cropcirc.xbm" or whatever name you
like, and then xsetroot -bitmap on the file.

The four patterns on the left half of the bitmap I got from diagrams
in the 11:11 pamphlet that was going around late last year, the
contents of which have been posted to net a couple of times (including
once by myself :). The 11:11, as many know, was the opening of the
"dimensional" Gateway on 1-11-1992, connecting Earth to the higher
octaves, and the four patterns on the left symbolically depict this,
showing two circles, one normal, and the other highlighted in some way
(larger, with a ring, etc), connected by a pathway. Three of the four
patterns actually have 11's on either side of the line, making an
11:11. The two circles represent Earth and the higher octave,
connected by the 11:11 Doorway.

The three more complex patterns on the right, I got from pictures in
an advertisement for a couple of videotapes on the crop circle
phenomena. I would have to say that the upper two of these three also
represent the 11:11 Activation, but in a higher sense, in that they
are similar to the first four patterns but with an additional circle,
the additional circle probably depicting the Greater Central Sun found
in the higher octaves (since one pattern has the end circle with sun
like lines coming from it, while the other is hollow.) Again, both
pattern have 11's in them - one with 11's on either side of the line,
and the other with just one 11 but with a ring around it. The final
patten in the lower right is the largest and most complex, being in
the shape of connected circles arranged triangularly. No definite
clues to what this one represents, except for perhaps certain trinity
forms in general; considering that this is a crop circle and the
different patterns in each corner, it could be showing the trinity of
planets existing between Earth, a planet called Essassani in Orion,
and a planet near Sirius (See the Bashar material for more on this)
but of course this is mostly speculative. Anyway, enjoy the bitmap!

----BEGIN INCLUDED BITMAP CUT HERE----
#define cropcirc_width 128
#define cropcirc_height 128
static short cropcirc_bits[] = {
0xffff,0xffff,0xffff,0xffff,0xffff,0xffff,0xffff,0xffff,0x0001,0x0000,0x0001,
0x0000,0x0001,0x0000,0x0001,0x0000,0x0001,0x0000,0x0001,0x0000,0xe001,0x0000,
0x0001,0x0000,0x0001,0x0000,0x0001,0x0000,0xe001,0x0000,0x0001,0x0000,0x0001,
0x0000,0xc001,0x0007,0xe001,0x0000,0x0001,0x0000,0x0001,0x0000,0xf001,0x001f,
0xe001,0x0000,0x0001,0x0000,0xc001,0x0007,0xf801,0x003f,0xf001,0x0001,0x0001,
0x0000,0xe001,0x000f,0xfc01,0x007f,0xf801,0x0003,0x8001,0x000f,0xf001,0x001f,
0xfc01,0x007f,0xfc01,0x0007,0xe001,0x003f,0xf001,0x001f,0xfe01,0x00ff,0xfc01,
0x0007,0xf001,0x007f,0xf001,0x001f,0xfe01,0x00ff,0xff81,0x003f,0xf001,0x007f,
0xf001,0x001f,0xfe01,0x00ff,0xfc01,0x0007,0xf801,0x00ff,0xf001,0x001f,0xfe01,
0x00ff,0xfc01,0x0007,0xf801,0x00ff,0xe001,0x000f,0xfe01,0x00ff,0xf801,0x0003,
0xf801,0x00ff,0xc001,0x0007,0xfc01,0x007f,0xf001,0x0001,0xf801,0x00ff,0x0001,
0x0000,0xfc01,0x007f,0xe001,0x0000,0xf801,0x00ff,0x0001,0x0001,0xf801,0x003f,
0xe001,0x0000,0xf001,0x007f,0x0001,0x0001,0xf001,0x001f,0xe001,0x0000,0xf001,
0x007f,0x0001,0x0001,0xc001,0x0007,0xe001,0x0000,0xe001,0x003f,0x0001,0x0001,
0xc001,0x0007,0xe001,0x0000,0x8001,0x000f,0x0001,0x0001,0xc001,0x0007,0xe001,
0x0000,0x0001,0x0007,0x0001,0x0001,0xcd81,0x0367,0xb801,0x0003,0x0001,0x0007,
0x0001,0x0001,0xcd81,0x0367,0xa601,0x000c,0x0001,0x0007,0x0001,0x0001,0xcd81,
0x0367,0xa181,0x0030,0x0001,0x0007,0xc739,0x39c7,0xcd81,0x0367,0xf841,0x0043,
0x5001,0x0057,0xc739,0x39c7,0xcd81,0x0367,0xa601,0x000c,0x5001,0x0057,0xc739,
0x39c7,0xcd81,0x0367,0xa101,0x0010,0x5001,0x0057,0xc739,0x39c7,0xcd81,0x0367,
0xa001,0x0000,0x5001,0x0057,0xc739,0x39c7,0xcd81,0x0367,0xa001,0x0000,0x5001,
0x0057,0xc739,0x39c7,0xcd81,0x0367,0xf001,0x0001,0x5001,0x0057,0xc739,0x39c7,
0xc001,0x0007,0xf801,0x0003,0x5001,0x0057,0xc739,0x39c7,0xc001,0x0007,0xfc01,
0x0007,0x0001,0x0007,0xc001,0x0007,0xc001,0x0007,0xfc01,0x0007,0x0001,0x0007,
0xc001,0x0007,0xe001,0x000f,0xfc01,0x0007,0x0001,0x0007,0xc001,0x0007,0xf801,
0x003f,0xfc01,0x0007,0x0001,0x0007,0xc001,0x0007,0xde01,0x00f7,0xfc01,0x0007,
0x0001,0x0007,0xc001,0x0007,0xc701,0x01c7,0xf801,0x0003,0xc001,0x001f,0xc001,
0x0007,0xc381,0x0387,0xf001,0x0001,0x3001,0x0067,0xc001,0x0007,0xf181,0x031f,
0xa001,0x0000,0x8801,0x008f,0xc001,0x0007,0xf8c1,0x063f,0xf001,0x0001,0xe401,
0x013f,0xe001,0x000f,0xfcc1,0x067f,0xfc01,0x0007,0xf201,0x027f,0xf801,0x003f,
0xfc61,0x0c7f,0xef01,0x001e,0xfa01,0x02ff,0xfc01,0x007f,0xfe61,0x0cff,0xe301,
0x0018,0xf901,0x04ff,0xfe01,0x00ff,0xfe61,0x0cff,0xe181,0x0030,0xfd01,0x05ff,
0xff01,0x01ff,0xfe61,0x0cff,0xe181,0x0030,0xfd01,0x05ff,0xff01,0x01ff,0xfe61,
0x0cff,0xe4c1,0x0064,0xfd01,0x05ff,0xff81,0x03ff,0xfe61,0x0cff,0xe4c1,0x0064,
0xfd01,0x05ff,0xff81,0x03ff,0xfc61,0x0c7f,0xe4c1,0x0064,0xfd01,0x05ff,0xff81,
0x03ff,0xfcc1,0x067f,0xe4c1,0x0064,0xf901,0x04ff,0xff81,0x03ff,0xf8c1,0x063f,
0xe4c1,0x0064,0xfa01,0x02ff,0xff81,0x03ff,0xf181,0x031f,0xe181,0x0030,0xf201,
0x027f,0xff81,0x03ff,0xc381,0x0387,0xe181,0x0030,0xe401,0x013f,0xff81,0x03ff,
0x0701,0x01c0,0xe301,0x0018,0x8801,0x008f,0xff01,0x01ff,0x1e01,0x00f0,0xef01,
0x001e,0x3001,0x0067,0xff01,0x01ff,0xf801,0x003f,0xfc01,0x0007,0xc001,0x001f,
0xfe01,0x00ff,0xe001,0x000f,0xf001,0x0001,0x0001,0x0007,0xfc01,0x007f,0x8001,
0x0003,0xe001,0x0000,0x0001,0x0007,0xf801,0x003f,0x8001,0x0003,0xe001,0x0000,
0x0001,0x0007,0xe001,0x000f,0x8001,0x0003,0xf001,0x0001,0x0001,0x0007,0x0001,
0x0000,0x8001,0x0003,0xf801,0x0003,0x0001,0x0007,0x0001,0x0000,0x8001,0x0003,
0xfc01,0x0007,0x8001,0x000f,0x0001,0x0000,0x0001,0x0000,0xfe01,0x000f,0xe001,
0x003f,0x0001,0x0000,0x0001,0x0000,0xfe01,0x000f,0xf001,0x007f,0x0001,0x0000,
0x0001,0x0000,0xfe01,0x000f,0xf001,0x007f,0xffff,0xffff,0xffff,0xffff,0xfe01,
0x000f,0xf801,0x00f8,0x0001,0x0000,0x0001,0x0000,0xfe01,0x000f,0x7801,0x00f0,
0x0001,0x0000,0x0001,0x0000,0xfc01,0x0007,0x7801,0x00f0,0x0001,0x0000,0xe001,
0x000f,0xf801,0x0003,0x7801,0x00f0,0x0001,0x0000,0x1c01,0x0070,0xf181,0x8031,
0xf802,0x00f8,0x0001,0x0000,0x0301,0x0180,0xa381,0x4038,0xf004,0x007f,0x0001,
0x0000,0x0081,0x0200,0xaf01,0x201e,0xf008,0x007f,0x0001,0x0000,0xe041,0x040f,
0xfe31,0x118f,0xe010,0x003f,0xe001,0x000f,0x1821,0x0830,0xf871,0x09c3,0x8020,
0x000f,0x1c01,0x0070,0x0411,0x1040,0xa1e1,0xc4f0,0x0047,0x0000,0x0301,0x0180,
0x0211,0x1080,0xa781,0x323c,0x0099,0x0000,0xe081,0x020f,0xc109,0x2107,0xff01,
0x091f,0x0121,0x0000,0x1841,0x0430,0xf089,0x221f,0xf801,0x8483,0x0240,0x0000,
0x0621,0x08c0,0xf889,0x223f,0x0001,0x8440,0x0470,0x0000,0xe111,0x110f,0xf845,
0x443f,0x0001,0x0a20,0x0889,0x0000,0x1889,0x2230,0xfc45,0x447f,0x0001,0x7210,
0x1085,0x0000,0x0449,0x2440,0xfc41,0x047f,0x0001,0x8208,0x2083,0x0000,0xc245,
0x4487,0xfc01,0x007f,0x0001,0x4204,0x409d,0x0000,0xf125,0x491f,0xfc01,0x007f,
0x0001,0x2202,0x80a1,0x0000,0xf921,0x093f,0xfc01,0x007f,0x0001,0x1c01,0x0042,
0x0001,0xf881,0x023f,0xf801,0x003f,0x8001,0x0400,0x0042,0x0002,0xfc01,0x007f,
0xf801,0x003f,0x4001,0x0800,0x0021,0x0004,0xfc01,0x007f,0xf001,0x001f,0x2001,
0x3000,0x0019,0x0008,0xfc01,0x007f,0xc001,0x0007,0x1001,0xc000,0x0007,0x0010,
0xfc01,0x007f,0x8001,0x0003,0x0801,0x0000,0x0001,0x0020,0xfc01,0x007f,0x8001,
0x0003,0x0401,0x8000,0x0003,0x0040,0xf801,0x003f,0x8001,0x0003,0x0201,0x8000,
0x0003,0x0080,0xf801,0x003f,0x8c61,0x0c63,0x0101,0x4000,0x0005,0x0100,0xf001,
0x001f,0x8c61,0x0c63,0x0081,0x4000,0x0005,0x0200,0xc001,0x0007,0x8c61,0x0c63,
0x0041,0x2000,0x0009,0x0400,0x8001,0x0003,0x8c61,0x0c63,0x0021,0xf000,0x001f,
0x0800,0x8001,0x0003,0x8c61,0x0c63,0x0011,0x1800,0x0031,0x1000,0x8001,0x0003,
0x8c61,0x0c63,0x0009,0x0e00,0x00e1,0x2000,0x8001,0x0003,0x8c61,0x0c63,0x0005,
0x0900,0x0121,0x4000,0x8001,0x0003,0x8c61,0x0c63,0x0003,0xc480,0x0247,0x8000,
0x8001,0x0003,0x8001,0x0003,0x0001,0x3240,0x0499,0x0000,0x8001,0x0003,0x8001,
0x0003,0x0001,0x0e40,0x04e1,0x0000,0x8001,0x0003,0x8001,0x0003,0x0001,0x0520,
0x0941,0x0000,0x8001,0x0003,0x8001,0x0003,0x0001,0xc320,0x0987,0x0000,0x8001,
0x0003,0x8001,0x0003,0x0001,0xe290,0x128f,0x0000,0x8001,0x0003,0x8001,0x0003,
0x0001,0xf190,0x131f,0x0000,0x8001,0x0003,0x8001,0x0003,0x0001,0xf150,0x151f,
0x0000,0xc001,0x0007,0x8001,0x0003,0x0001,0xf130,0x191e,0x0000,0xf001,0x001f,
0x8001,0x0003,0x0001,0xf130,0x191f,0x0000,0xf801,0x003f,0x8001,0x0003,0x0001,
0xf110,0x111f,0x0000,0xfc01,0x007f,0x8001,0x0003,0x0001,0xee10,0x10ef,0x0000,
0xfc01,0x007f,0x8001,0x0003,0x0001,0xc228,0x2887,0x0000,0xfe01,0x00ff,0xc001,
0x0007,0x0001,0x05a4,0x4b40,0x0000,0xfe01,0x00ff,0xf001,0x001f,0x0f81,0x0c64,
0x4c60,0x00e0,0xfe01,0x00ff,0xf801,0x003f,0x3061,0x305a,0xb418,0x0398,0xfe01,
0x00ff,0xfc01,0x007f,0x4011,0xc086,0xc207,0x0c04,0xfe01,0x00ff,0xfc01,0x007f,
0x8009,0xffff,0xffff,0x1003,0xfc01,0x007f,0xfe01,0x00ff,0xc009,0x0600,0x00c0,
0x10c2,0xfc01,0x007f,0xfe01,0x00ff,0x3005,0x1801,0x0030,0x21a0,0xf801,0x003f,
0xfe01,0x00ff,0x0c05,0xe001,0x000f,0x2210,0xf001,0x001f,0xfe01,0x00ff,0x0205,
0x0001,0x0000,0x3398,0xc001,0x0007,0xfe01,0x00ff,0x0005,0x0001,0x0000,0x1008,
0x0001,0x0000,0xfc01,0x007f,0x0005,0x0001,0x0000,0x1008,0x0001,0x0000,0xfc01,
0x007f,0x8009,0x0000,0x0000,0x0810,0x0001,0x0000,0xf801,0x003f,0x8009,0x0000,
0x0000,0x04e0,0x0001,0x0000,0xf001,0x001f,0x4011,0x0000,0x0000,0x0380,0x0001,
0x0000,0xc001,0x0007,0x3061,0x0000,0x0000,0x0000,0x0001,0x0000,0x0001,0x0000,
0x0f81,0x0000,0x0000,0x0000,0x0001,0x0000,0x0001,0x0000,0x0001,0x0000,0x0000,
0x0000};
----END INCLUDED BITMAP CUT HERE----


-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
|     Walter D. "Cruiser1" Pullen     |     [e-mail]     |
-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
|   "Who am I, What am I?  As I am, I am not.  But as we are, I AM.  And to   |
-   you my creation, My Perfect Love is your Perfect Freedom. And I will be   -
|   with you forever and ever, until the End, and then forever more." - GOD   |
-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!convex!mips.mitek.com!apple!netcomsv!mork!noring
From: [e-mail] (Jon Noring)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories
Subject: Re: Q&A on Extraterrestrial Abductions and Visitations
Message-ID: <=[e-mail]>
Date: 17 Mar 92 22:29:54 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)
Lines: 45
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4939 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1183

In [e-mail] (Jennifer Bolt) writes:

>Wake up, The universe is too big, and the distances too great for aliens to
>travel back and forth, that is from the Earth back to where ever.  So no
>aliens have probably come to Earth, although it is almost definite that
>life must exist elsewhere...

If the only way to travel from one point in the universe to another point
is to move through the space between the points, then Jennifer is correct
because, according to Relativity (either SR or GR), and backed up with
much experimental evidence, no object of mass can travel through space greater
than (or even equal to, in reality) the speed of light in a vacuum.

However, has it ever occured to you that it may be possible to alter space
itself and reduce or even eliminate the space between any two points in space?

Of course, this may prove impossible, but our understanding of physics
is still sparse and incomplete (with my apologies to those physicists
listening in), so it is being a little to dogmatic to arbitrarily use
that argument to prove the impossibility of alien species visiting us.
Before the Wright brothers came along, many top scientists categorically
denied the possibility that man could produce a practical heavier-than-air
machine;  and of course, we know what happened after the Wright brothers
proved them wrong.

For progress to happen, we need dreamers who will swim against the tide of
negative opinion from so-called "experts" and go out and do the "impossible."
My Ph.D. advisor, a brilliant thermodynamicist and a big thinker, once told
me that "one can think of a hundred reasons why something won't work.  All
you have to do is find one way to make it work."

I now climb down from my soapbox.

Jon Noring

--
=============================================================================
| Jon Noring          | [e-mail] | "The dogs bark, but the  |
| JKN International   | IP    : 192.100.81.100   |  caravan moves on."      |
| 1312 Carlton Place  | Phone : [phone]   | "Pack your lunch, sit in |
| Livermore, CA 94550 | V-Mail: [phone]   |  the bushes, and watch." |
=============================================================================
"If you make $50,000 today, you have the same buying power as the average
coal miner did in 1949, adjusted for taxes and inflation," John Sestina,
nationally recognized Certified Financial Planner;  quoted in 1987.
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!pacbell.com!decwrl!netcomsv!ctedge!djk
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.postmodern,alt.religion.kibology,alt.sex,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: La, la, la...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 17 Mar 92 23:01:43 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: NMS&Systems Engineering
Lines: 50
Xref: ns-mx alt.postmodern:2358 alt.religion.kibology:1214 alt.sex:58989 alt.alien.visitors:4940

[e-mail] (Tom Hamill) writes:

> In article [e-mail] (David Gundlach) writes:
> >And then in [e-mail] (Daniel Dise) said...
> >% In article [e-mail] (Bat Rastard) writes:
> >% >In article [e-mail] (Michael Wasylik) writes...
> >% >>In article [e-mail] (David Gundlach) writes:
> >% >>>And then in [e-mail] (Bat Rastard) said...
> >% >>>% In article <[e-mail]> writes...
> >% >>>% >In article [e-mail] (Tom Hamill) says:
> >% >>>% >>In article [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
> >% >>>% >>>In article [e-mail] (Paul D Evans) writes:
> >% >>>% >>>>In article [e-mail] (Chris Colby) writes:
> >% >>>% >>>>> In article [e-mail] (Lawrence C. Foard) write
> >% >>>% >>>>> >In article [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
> >% >>>% >>>>>
> >% >>>% >>>>> >>  GEE, I'M SURE GLAD THAT .SIGNATURE VIRUSES ARE PASSE.
> >% >>>% >>>>>
> >% >>>% >>>>> >They will just mutate to get around it!
> >% >>>% >>>>>
> >% >>>% >>>>> >Evolution is god!
> >% >>>% >>>>> Sanitation is fraud:
> >% >>>% >>>>Sandinistas ate Maude.
> >% >>>% >>>Santa Claus baits God.
> >% >>>% >>>Satan Claws Bates Dog!  Film At Eleven!
> >% >>>% >>Satin draws mates bod.
> >% >>>% >I sat in Ward's tame knob.
> >% >>>% I set a weird time bomb.
> >% >>>I shed a weird tie, Bob...
> >% >>I shot a wet teen babe.
> >% >Izod's a wasp trend, Biff.
> >% I drove off a west end cliff
> >I rode to arrest a lift.
> Electrodes tie my wrists.
>
> ---tom
>
> l~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~l
> l      CRUSH---CompassionRespectUnderstandingSelfHonesty---CRUSH      l
> l         How could you have ever lived your life without it?         l
> l               Join Now, Apply Within.  Spread the word.             l
> l_________________________         ---me, trying to save the world,   l
> l [e-mail] l                         from itself.       l
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


--- Daniel J. Karnes / WA6NDT --------------------------------------
--- NMS&Systems Engineering ----------------------------------------
--- [e-mail] / ..CtEdge!Nitro!Djk ----------------------
-- 'innovative solutions for modern problems' ----------------------
Path: ns-mx!uunet!munnari.oz.au!bruce!trlluna!titan!hal!jbm
From: [e-mail] (Jacques Guy)
Newsgroups: alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Dreamland
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 18 Mar 92 00:32:52 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: Telecom Research Labs, Melbourne, Australia
Lines: 7
Xref: ns-mx alt.paranormal:4653 alt.alien.visitors:4941 sci.skeptic:21940


>[e-mail] (Derek Abbott) writes:

>>Wasn't it Thomas Alva Edison who said "Genius is 99% perspiration and
>>1% inspiration." ???

"Invention", not "Genius".
Path: ns-mx!uunet!wupost!psuvax1!uxa.ecn.bgu.edu!news.ils.nwu.edu!casbah.acns.nwu.edu!wasylik
From: [e-mail] (Michael Wasylik)
Newsgroups: alt.postmodern,alt.religion.kibology,alt.sex,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: La, la, la...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 17 Mar 92 21:06:45 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston, Illinois
Lines: 52
Xref: ns-mx alt.postmodern:2360 alt.religion.kibology:1217 alt.sex:58997 alt.alien.visitors:4942

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (David Gundlach) writes:
>Newsgroups: alt.postmodern,alt.religion.kibology,alt.sex,alt.alien.visitors
>Subject: Re: La, la, la...
>Summary: still going...
>Expires:
>References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
>Sender:
>Followup-To:
>Distribution: world
>Organization: University of Georgia Statistics Department
>Keywords:
>
>And then in <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Daniel Dise) said...
>% In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Bat Rastard) writes:
>% >In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Michael Wasylik) writes...
>% >>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (David Gundlach) writes:
>% >>>And then in <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Bat Rastard) said...
>% >>>% In article <[e-mail]>, <[e-mail]> writes...
>% >>>% >In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail]
>% >>>% >(Tom Hamill) says:
>% >>>% >>In article [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>% >>>% >>>In article [e-mail] (Paul D Evans) writes:
>% >>>% >>>>In article [e-mail] (Chris Colby) writes:
>% >>>% >>>>> In article [e-mail] (Lawrence C. Foard) writes:
>% >>>% >>>>> >In article [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>% >>>% >>>>>
>% >>>% >>>>> >>  GEE, I'M SURE GLAD THAT .SIGNATURE VIRUSES ARE PASSE.
>% >>>% >>>>>
>% >>>% >>>>> >They will just mutate to get around it!
>% >>>% >>>>>
>% >>>% >>>>> >Evolution is god!
>% >>>% >>>>> Sanitation is fraud:
>% >>>% >>>>Sandinistas ate Maude.
>% >>>% >>>Santa Claus baits God.
>% >>>% >>>Satan Claws Bates Dog!  Film At Eleven!
>% >>>% >>Satin draws mates bod.
>% >>>% >I sat in Ward's tame knob.
>% >>>% I set a weird time bomb.
>% >>>I shed a weird tie, Bob...
>% >>I shot a wet teen babe.
>% >Izod's a wasp trend, Biff.
>% I drove off a west end cliff
>I rode to arrest a lift.
A diode's zest went "Pfffft!"

Mw

--
+-------------------------------------------------------------+
: Mike Wasylik                    [e-mail] :
:          I'm too sexy for my .sig                           :
+-------------------------------------------------------------+
Path: ns-mx!uunet!munnari.oz.au!bruce!goanna!minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au!s914370
From: [e-mail] (David Morrison)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Circles in the fields
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 18 Mar 92 00:08:05 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <3NRK+L=@irie.ais.org> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: RMIT Computer Centre, Melbourne Australia.
Lines: 19


  I'm not arguing either way in regards to the 'Crop Circle' debate. But I
saw an Australian show last night (Beyond 2000) which had a story on the Circles
in England. They weren't able to draw much of a conclusion except that more
study on a broader scale needs to occur.

But one thing that WAS brought up which I haven't mentioned was that some
scientists had been analysing the crystaline structure of the crop found in
the circle. (They said its a method which can show what could be considered the
life energy - but thats not important). The important thing is, there WAS a
different crystaline structure to those crop found in the circles. So what does
this mean? You can't try and reporduce an 'original' with a plank of wood and
some string etc. Cos thats NOT going to change the crstaline structure of that
crop.
  My rough interpretation says : There is some form of energy involved in the
production of real crop circles. Whether this is natural or artificially
induced is another question.

David
Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!news.cs.indiana.edu!umn.edu!lynx!nmsu.edu!charon!sdoe
From: [e-mail] (Stephen Doe)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal,sci.skeptic,sci.space
Subject: Re: Mars Face / General Info.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 18 Mar 92 01:16:02 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: New Mexico State University
Lines: 8
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4944 alt.paranormal:4655 sci.skeptic:21943 sci.space:28014

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Frank Stuart Brown) writes:
>
>Thanks for all the mail. I should have said billions, and yes I know
>the sun will become a red giant and swallow up the inner planets, but
>isn't it going to shrink before it expands?

No, the sun will expand before it shrinks.  It will end its life as a
white dwarf.
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!uwm.edu!linac!tellab5!jcj
From: [e-mail] (jcj)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re^2: ? Majestic Twelve ?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 18 Mar 92 01:21:50 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (News)
Organization: Wazmodyne Industries
Lines: 9
Nntp-Posting-Host: sungb

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Oakley C) writes:
>
>>No, no - you're thinking of the "Hosehead Nebula"
>
>No. I think you mean HORSEhead (unless the Hosehead Nebula looks like some gardening implement)_

Take off, eh!  He means "Hosehead", Hosehead.  Beauty.
--
              [e-mail]
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!n8emr!bluemoon!bmb
From: [e-mail] (Bryan Bankhead)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: terraforming
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 17 Mar 92 23:40:12 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (BBS Login)
Organization: Blue Moon BBS ((614) 868-998[024])
Lines: 11

I have, for some time, thought that terraforming was a waste of time and
energy.  the energy requirments just for a conversion of mars' atmosphere
are in the neiborhood of 10^23 calories.  for that energy ;you could build
enough O'niel type space colonies to have many times mar's availabe
surface area.  I fail to understand this fascination with living on
planets.  Why climb bacck down into a gravity well after spending so much
ingenuity getting out?

 This is from
     [e-mail]
who doesn't have their own obnoxious signature yet
Path: ns-mx!uunet!Cadence.COM!jdm
From: [e-mail] (Joe Mastroianni)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Circles in the fields
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 18 Mar 92 01:41:48 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <3NRK+L=@irie.ais.org> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Cadence Design Systems, Inc.
Lines: 59

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (David Tiberio) writes:
>In article <3NRK+L=@irie.ais.org> [e-mail] (David Daniels) writes:
>>
>>
>
>    1) The soil becomes dehydrated, obviously from a large amount
>    of heat used in creating the crop circle. The soil seems to lose
>    it's ability to absorb water...when placed in water it does not



 Crop circles are stupid.

 When I was a kid, I made my own crop circles. I did it like this. Me and
a bunch of friends went into a corn field and pushed over a bunch of
corn. Corn is grown in rows. The spacing between corn plants is regular.
By counting rows and numbers of plants you push aside, you can make
all kinds of shapes. It dosent talke very long and you dont have to kill
any corn. Corn bends very easy and it stays that way.

  We made all kinds of shapes in the corn fields around my house in the
Chicago suburbs in the early '70s. If anybody knows about any newspaper
articles about mysterious shapes in Illinois corn fields in the '70s,
I confess. We made triangles, circles, and rectangles. We made three
circles that formed a snowman.

   The farmer never found us out.

 Crop circles are not a way to communicate with humans.

 Putting a big circle on the Golden Gate Bridge during rush hour would
be a better form of communication. Making a pot hole the size of an
18 wheel freight truck in the BQE at 7:00 would be a fine way to
communicate.

 I cant afford the mental bandwidth it would take to force myself to
believe that crop circles are not made by farmers looking to make a
profit on tourism.

 When you drive through the American heartland toward many of our nations
fine national parks you will see many signs. "See the worlds biggest
ball of twine." "See the Ruby Falls". "See living Dinosaurs." "See
Bigfoot's Wonder Sneakers."

 Dosen't anyone see the signs in the UK that say, "See the great mystery
crop circles?" Whats the big deal here?

  Joe






--
Joe Mastroianni          AKA: AA6YD  AA6YD @ N6LDL.#NOCAL.CA.USA.NA
Cadence Design Systems
Santa Clara Ca.          "Up the airy mountain;down the rushy glen; we
[e-mail]           daren't go a hunting; for fear of little men "
Path: ns-mx!uunet!think.com!samsung!nighthawk.clearpoint.com!transfer!sw.stratus.com!tarl
From: [e-mail] (Tarl Neustaedter)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories
Subject: Re: Q&A on Extraterrestrial Abductions and Visitations
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 18 Mar 92 07:18:35 GMT
References: <=[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.
Lines: 33
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4948 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1185

In article <=[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Jon Noring) writes:
> However, has it ever occured to you that it may be possible to alter space
> itself and reduce or even eliminate the space between any two points in space?

Yeah, but wishful thinking doesn't make it so.

> Before the Wright brothers came along, many top scientists categorically
> denied the possibility that man could produce a practical heavier-than-air
> machine;  and of course, we know what happened after the Wright brothers
> proved them wrong.

I keep hearing this canard as a justification that we can't possibly know
anything, so we must assume everything is possible. There may have been
people associated with sciences who were stupid enough to say something like
that, but it was *NOT* presumed that a heavier-than-air machine could not fly.
Among other things, they knew very well that the avian population is heavier
than air, and they also had un-powered mechanical gliders by then.

Again, you may have found someone stupid enough to say that it was impossible
(I have seen the quotes for rockets not working outside the atmosphere and
trains losing all their air if they went too fast), but don't let a few
stupid quotes lead you to believe that heavier than air flight was dismissed
as impossible. It was dismissed as *impractical* at the time - it took
advances in propulsion and materials to make it possible, plus someone
brave enough to actually pilot it the first time.

> I now climb down from my soapbox.

Don't hurt yourself. It's a long way down.
--
         Tarl Neustaedter    [e-mail]
         Marlboro, Mass.    Stratus Computer
Disclaimer: My employer is not responsible for my opinions.
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!yale.edu!jvnc.net!darwin.sura.net!ukma!psuvax1!uxa.ecn.bgu.edu!news.ils.nwu.edu!casbah.acns.nwu.edu!jnewton
From: [e-mail] (Justin Newton)
Newsgroups: alt.postmodern,alt.religion.kibology,alt.sex,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: La, la, la...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 18 Mar 92 05:23:56 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.
Lines: 44
Xref: ns-mx alt.postmodern:2369 alt.religion.kibology:1226 alt.sex:59073 alt.alien.visitors:4949

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (David Gundlach) writes:
>Newsgroups: alt.postmodern,alt.religion.kibology,alt.sex,alt.alien.visitors
>Subject: Re: La, la, la...
>Summary: still going...
>Expires:
>References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
>Sender:
>Followup-To:
>Distribution: world
>Organization: University of Georgia Statistics Department
>Keywords:
>
>And then in <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Daniel Dise) said...
>% In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Bat Rastard) writes:
>% >In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Michael Wasylik) writes...
>% >>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (David Gundlach) writes:
>% >>>And then in <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Bat Rastard) said...
>% >>>% In article <[e-mail]>, <[e-mail]> writes...
>% >>>% >In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail]
>% >>>% >(Tom Hamill) says:
>% >>>% >>In article [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>% >>>% >>>In article [e-mail] (Paul D Evans) writes:
>% >>>% >>>>In article [e-mail] (Chris Colby) writes:
>% >>>% >>>>> In article [e-mail] (Lawrence C. Foard) writes:
>% >>>% >>>>> >In article [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>% >>>% >>>>>
>% >>>% >>>>> >>  GEE, I'M SURE GLAD THAT .SIGNATURE VIRUSES ARE PASSE.
>% >>>% >>>>>
>% >>>% >>>>> >They will just mutate to get around it!
>% >>>% >>>>>
>% >>>% >>>>> >Evolution is god!
>% >>>% >>>>> Sanitation is fraud:
>% >>>% >>>>Sandinistas ate Maude.
>% >>>% >>>Santa Claus baits God.
>% >>>% >>>Satan Claws Bates Dog!  Film At Eleven!
>% >>>% >>Satin draws mates bod.
>% >>>% >I sat in Ward's tame knob.
>% >>>% I set a weird time bomb.
>% >>>I shed a weird tie, Bob...
>% >>I shot a wet teen babe.
>% >Izod's a wasp trend, Biff.
>% I drove off a west end cliff
>I rode to arrest a lift.
I strove to compress a zit.
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!news.cs.indiana.edu!bronze![e-mail]
From: [e-mail] (Beth Lung)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan,talk.religion.newage,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Creating Peace On Earth by 2000 !
Keywords: Peace Clock
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 18 Mar 92 07:46:34 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: yea, right
Lines: 36
Xref: ns-mx alt.pagan:13575 talk.religion.newage:9817 alt.paranormal:4656 alt.alien.visitors:4950

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (John Emery) writes:

John>Please share what you are referring to, Janis.

Janis>Oh, how about "In pain shall you bring forth children.  You shall remain
Janis>in subjugation to your husband all your life, but your wishes shall be
Janis>for him."

Janis>How about when Lot sent his two virgin daughters out into a ravening mob
Janis>of men so they would stop beating down his door?

Janis>How about "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live?"

Janis>How about "And the men of the city shall stone her with stones?"

Perhapse, John, you might care to read _The Challis and the Blade_
(unfortunatly I cannot remember the author's name right now) I think
it would provide you with some more -enlightening- examples.

        May you walk in peace,
            Beth







--
                  Beth Lung           [e-mail]

  How far must suffering and misery go before we see that even in the day of
  vast cities and powerful machines, the good earth is our mother and that if
  we destroy her, we destroy ourselves?  -Paul Bigelow Sears
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!news
From: [e-mail] (Donald Yett)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: The Talmud as Given by Judas Iscariot
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 18 Mar 92 09:05:29 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Donald Yett)
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Lines: 12
NNTP-Posting-Host: phad.hsc.usc.edu

In reply to Mr. Sheaffer's post of a ton of stuff he pruned of the newsgroup over the past week or so...

DON'T WASTE MY BANDWIDTH!!!  Yes, Meier's pictures could have been hoaxed...  Yes, if he was set up, he was set up well...
Let's move on to other things...  Posting all those recent articles cat'd together was annoying!



--
+-------------------------+----------------------------------------------------
| [e-mail]  | I will not be pushed, stamped, filed, indexed,
|   Just my opinions!     | briefed, debriefed, or numbered! - #6, The Prisoner
+-------------------------+----------------------------------------------------
Path: ns-mx!uunet!boulder!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f150.n30163.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin
From: [e-mail] (Michael Corbin)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Q&a On Extraterrestrial Abductions And Visitations
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 18 Mar 92 04:02:00 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (newsout1.26)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:30163/150.0
Lines: 29

>Wake up, The universe is to big, and the distances to great for
>aliens to
>travel back and forth, that is from the Earth back to where
>ever.  So no
>aliens have probably come to Earth, although it is almost
>definite that
>life must exist elsewhere.  And as for channeling, lets not
>drag mystical
>make believe into the endeavors of science.  Maybe some aliens
>have come
>here, but why or how we may never know, but do you really
>expect people to
>believe some mystical entity is communicating with you ? Who
>are you
>Buckaroo Bonzi ?

I applaud you on your desire to keep things in a scientific perspective
where this research is concerned, but I must say that without at
least pondering the possibility that someone may be coming here covering
vast distances, possessing technology that is "alien" to us, you are
narrowing your mind to the point that if a discovery of this technology is
possible it may elude you.

Mike

--
Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]
Path: ns-mx!uunet!news.claremont.edu!cmcvx1.claremont.edu!jstreidl
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.activism,alt.activism.d,alt.alien.visitors,alt.aquaria
Subject: straight A's
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 18 Mar 92 11:23:09 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (The News System)
Organization: Claremont McKenna College
Lines: 5
Xref: ns-mx alt.activism:22809 alt.activism.d:4369 alt.alien.visitors:4953 alt.aquaria:11194


Do you want to get STRAIGHT A'S in college?  If so, E-mail your
address to me so I can send you information.

[e-mail]
Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!unido!ira.uka.de!smurf.sub.org!flatlin!uhf!grmbl.saar.sub.org!me
From: [e-mail] (Martin Emmerich)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Circles in the fields
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 17 Mar 92 15:06:28 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <3NRK+L=@irie.ais.org> <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Organization: ME Inc.
Lines: 35

In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (David Tiberio) writes:

>    6) Numerous crop circles have appeared all over the world,
>    concentrating on rural areas. All circles have the same traits as
>    far as the soil is concerned. In some cases grass dies. This
>    is evidence that there are few hoaxes. If all crop circles are
>    hoaxes, then the perpetrator would have to:

If all crop circles are faked, they are faked by someone who has ...

>        e) Have the intent of fooling people on a huge, massive
>        scale

... a lot of humor, ...

>        g) Have the ability to plan designs that are complicated
>        to design from the ground by humans...humans would make
>        mistakes. Some crop circles have four circles of identicle
>        sizes. Some have toruses. Some are symmetrical. Humans
>        would make mistakes unless all parts were marked out by
>        corner posts, line markings, etc.

... and a very good feeling for aesthetics.

Many composistions I have seen up to now are placed in sort of
context to their environment.

I like the crop circles. If they are man-made by intent, they
are produced by a great artist. If not, I like them anyway.

--
    /|/>        /         ,---                  /    Internet address:
   /  / _   __-/- o _    /-- __  __  _  __ o _ /_       [e-mail]
  /  /_/_(_/(_/(_(_/ (  /___//(_//(_(/_/(_(_(_/ (    or [e-mail]
======== I've got the : Segmentation violation -- Core dumped blues. ========
Path: ns-mx!uunet!cbmvax!snark!beyonet!beyo
From: [e-mail] (Steve Urich)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: The Talmud as Given by Judas Iscariot
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 18 Mar 92 01:19:51 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Beyonet Network
Lines: 51

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Robert Sheaffer) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Steve Urich) writes:
>>
>>?>So tell us oh learned and wise Govt agent Shaeffer..just HOW did Billy "hoax"
>>?>the Pleiadian craft?
>>
>>    Thats what I would like to know... All these so called professional
>>video technowizards with there whinning about being a hoax. Proof it!
>>I know! Billy is really `The Lawnmower Man' and he did it all in Virtual
>>Reality. :-))) Really!!! Its all `Virtual Reality' on Film. Mind over matter
>>thats why you couldn't see any fishing line :-).
>>
>
>        Somebody posted this here recently. It may answer your question.
>Subject: Eduard "billy" Meier - Photo Evidence



    Yea I read the whinning about the review of the `Book' pictures of
    the Pleiadian UFO not having the right color and so on. That like
    reviewing the color cordination of a comicbook. Whinning about
    how spidermans spidy suit is purple instead of red on page 20. It
    a hoax comic this isn't the real spidy :-).

    Any so called professional video technowizard that trys to debunk
    photographs in a book is not a very bright boy. Also the people that
    that would read this and presume that its a proven fact, are in the
    same catagory. I believe photos are much easier to to make `Impure'
    then some kind of video technique.


    So we are back to the same question. Nobody seems to know exactly
    how Billy "The Lawnmover Man" Meier did the hoaxed UFO film.
    Why didn't Billy just admit that is was a hoax after he got snagged?
    Most guilty criminals admit to the crime after proven that they
    did it. Could you honestly say that Billy could be convicted in
    a court of law for hoaxing the UFO film? Is there enough evidence
    and proof to convict him or just alot of whinning by a hoard of
    debunkers that are so called professionals.

    If I was him and he did hoax the film, I would say well I admit I
    hoaxed the whole thing but nobody knows how I did it :-).

Steve
--
 ############### Stephen Urich WB3FTP |"Starlightbeams project ###############
 ##|_|########## Bensalem, PA  USA    |me in Red Blue and Green##|_|##########
 ###############----------------------|Velvetdreams protect me ###############
 ####       #### snark!beyonet!beyo   |when I hit the Screen"  ####       ####
 ##    |_|    ## widener!beyonet!beyo |--Alan Parsons Project  ##    |_|    ##
 ##           ##-----------------------------------------------##           ##
 ####       ####  Packet Radio: WB3FTP@WA3NWL.#EPA.PA.USA.NA   ####       ####
_###############_______________________________________________###############_
Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!news.funet.fi!network.jyu.fi!tola
From: [e-mail] (Teemu Olavi Lahteenmaki)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Q&A on Extraterrestrial Abductions and Visitations
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 18 Mar 92 12:15:16 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: University of Jyvaskyla, Finland
Lines: 13

>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Jennifer Bolt) writes...
>>Wake up, The universe is to big, and the distances to great for aliens to
>>travel back and forth, that is from the Earth back to where ever.

Depends on whether you rely on these Einstein's stuff or not !

>
>    What do they say about "assume"?


--

-< Would you believe there's no signature here ? >-
Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!uknet!stl!stc!fsb
From: [e-mail] (Frank Stuart Brown)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal,sci.skeptic,sci.space
Subject: The dyslexic insomniac UFO spotter
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 18 Mar 92 14:01:26 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (System Administration)
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Frank Stuart Brown)
Organization: STC Telecomms, New Southgate, London, N11 1HB
Lines: 13
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4957 alt.paranormal:4660 sci.skeptic:21955 sci.space:28036



HE STAYED UP ALL NIGHT WONDERING IF THERE REALLY WAS A DOG
                     !!!!!!!

    OTCIN ADARAB OTCIN


--
"On the plains of hesitation lie the bones of countless millions, of those
who stopped to view their success, and while resting - died!"
<[e-mail]>  ||  !mcsun!ukc!stc!fsb
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!sei.cmu.edu!fs7.ece.cmu.edu!pellns.alleg.edu!news
From: [e-mail] (Jennifer Bolt)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Alien Visitation and Personal Views
Keywords: alien
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 18 Mar 92 16:18:57 GMT
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Allegheny College
Lines: 13


In my last post I doubted the presence of aliens on the grounds of
relativity.  While I myself proscribe to relativity, I agree it is
possible that someday it may be found that one can "warp" time and space
for travel accomidations, but I don't think so.  But what I really don't
believe in is channeling.  It has no scientific basis, and think of how
easy it would be for anyone to write a similar book.  I'm sure we've all
had imaginary friends at on time or another, but I guess some people never
grow out of them.  I openly welcome any scientific inquest into anything,
but when your reliable source is the invisible man,  take up astrology,
not astronomy.

Jen
Path: ns-mx!uunet!bonnie.concordia.ca!ccu.umanitoba.ca!umrutko0
From: [e-mail] (Chris Rutkowski)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Circles in the fields
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 18 Mar 92 15:58:15 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <3NRK+L=@irie.ais.org> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada
Lines: 30

In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (David Morrison) writes:



>But one thing that WAS brought up which I haven't mentioned was that some
>scientists had been analysing the crystaline structure of the crop found in
>the circle. (They said its a method which can show what could be considered the
>life energy - but thats not important). The important thing is, there WAS a
>different crystaline structure to those crop found in the circles. So what does
>this mean? You can't try and reporduce an 'original' with a plank of wood and
>some string etc. Cos thats NOT going to change the crstaline structure of that
>crop.
>  My rough interpretation says : There is some form of energy involved in the
>production of real crop circles. Whether this is natural or artificially
>induced is another question.

Have you ever seen the actual reports which describe this =crystalline
structure=?  Neither have most people.  The same people who claim such
structure also claim that circles are radioactive, and THAT has been
shown to not be true.  We should not base our interpretations on
CLAIMS, but on EVIDENCE.  I would like to have a group of plant
pathologists look at the Levengood cell structure data (I wouldn't mind
seeing the actual data, myself!), and then think about =energy= in
circles.

>David
--
Chris Rutkowski - [e-mail]
Royal Astronomical Society of Canada
University of Manitoba - Winnipeg, Canada
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!news.bbn.com!noc.near.net!newshost.cc.williams.edu!vax.cc.williams.edu!92dms
From: [e-mail] (Bat Rastard)
Newsgroups: alt.postmodern,alt.religion.kibology,alt.sex,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: La, la, la...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 17 Mar 92 22:22:00 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News Administrator)
Followup-To: alt.postmodern,alt.religion.kibology,alt.sex,alt.alien.visitors
Organization: Williams College Center for Computing
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News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Tom Hamill) writes...
>In article [e-mail] (David Gundlach) writes:
>>And then in [e-mail] (Daniel Dise) said...
>>% In article [e-mail] (Bat Rastard) writes:
>>% >In article [e-mail] (Michael Wasylik) writes...
>>% >>In article [e-mail] (David Gundlach) writes:
>>% >>>And then in [e-mail] (Bat Rastard) said...
>>% >>>% In article <[e-mail]> writes...
>>% >>>% >In article [e-mail] (Tom Hamill) says:
>>% >>>% >>In article [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>% >>>% >>>In article [e-mail] (Paul D Evans) writes:
>>% >>>% >>>>In article [e-mail] (Chris Colby) writes:
>>% >>>% >>>>> In article [e-mail] (Lawrence C. Foard) writes:
>>% >>>% >>>>> >In article [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>% >>>% >>>>>
>>% >>>% >>>>> >>  GEE, I'M SURE GLAD THAT .SIGNATURE VIRUSES ARE PASSE.
>>% >>>% >>>>>
>>% >>>% >>>>> >They will just mutate to get around it!
>>% >>>% >>>>>
>>% >>>% >>>>> >Evolution is god!
>>% >>>% >>>>> Sanitation is fraud:
>>% >>>% >>>>Sandinistas ate Maude.
>>% >>>% >>>Santa Claus baits God.
>>% >>>% >>>Satan Claws Bates Dog!  Film At Eleven!
>>% >>>% >>Satin draws mates bod.
>>% >>>% >I sat in Ward's tame knob.
>>% >>>% I set a weird time bomb.
>>% >>>I shed a weird tie, Bob...
>>% >>I shot a wet teen babe.
>>% >Izod's a wasp trend, Biff.
>>% I drove off a west end cliff
>>I rode to arrest a lift.
>Electrodes tie my wrists.
Erode the Mai Tai wisps.
Path: ns-mx!uunet!cbmvax!snark!beyonet!beyo
From: [e-mail] (Steve Urich)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: The Talmud as Given by Judas Iscariot
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 18 Mar 92 13:22:27 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Beyonet Network
Lines: 35

[e-mail] (Donald Yett) writes:
>In reply to Mr. Sheaffer's post of a ton of stuff he pruned of the newsgroup over the past week or so...
>
>DON'T WASTE MY BANDWIDTH!!!  Yes, Meier's pictures could have been hoaxed...  Yes, if he was set up, he was set up well...
>Let's move on to other things...  Posting all those recent articles cat'd together was annoying!

    Somehow I had a feeling that someone would complain. :-) I agree...
    Isn't if funny how some people believe other peoples opinions over
    those they are judging? Because some of those articles were
    about pictures in a 'book' I decided not to reply on such worthless
    secondary reviews. Since these reviews would only judge the quality
    if the company printing the pictures not the original. My he thought
    I didn't recieve this wonderful information. :-)

Steve

>
>
>
>--
>+-------------------------+----------------------------------------------------
>| [e-mail]  | I will not be pushed, stamped, filed, indexed,
>|   Just my opinions!     | briefed, debriefed, or numbered! - #6, The Prisoner
>+-------------------------+----------------------------------------------------


--
 ############### Stephen Urich WB3FTP |"Starlightbeams project ###############
 ##|_|########## Bensalem, PA  USA    |me in Red Blue and Green##|_|##########
 ###############----------------------|Velvetdreams protect me ###############
 ####       #### snark!beyonet!beyo   |when I hit the Screen"  ####       ####
 ##    |_|    ## widener!beyonet!beyo |--Alan Parsons Project  ##    |_|    ##
 ##           ##-----------------------------------------------##           ##
 ####       ####  Packet Radio: WB3FTP@WA3NWL.#EPA.PA.USA.NA   ####       ####
_###############_______________________________________________###############_
Path: ns-mx!uunet!olivea!apple!netcomsv!mork!noring
From: [e-mail] (Jon Noring)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Alien Visitation and Personal Views
Keywords: alien
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 18 Mar 92 16:53:38 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)
Lines: 35

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Jennifer Bolt) writes:
>
>In my last post I doubted the presence of aliens on the grounds of
>relativity.  While I myself proscribe to relativity, I agree it is
>possible that someday it may be found that one can "warp" time and space
>for travel accomidations, but I don't think so.  But what I really don't
>believe in is channeling.  It has no scientific basis, and think of how

I myself have a lot of trouble believing in channeling also.  However,
again, I must state that that doesn't mean there couldn't be a scientific
basis for it in the future.

For example, there are indications that space itself is not empty, rather
it has a structure to it (QM indicates there is a zero-point energy
associated with it).  It MIGHT be possible that communication via this
substructure of space (if it exists) may be possible.  If so, then it
again is plausible for biological processes to tap into this space
substructure and thus allow communication via this subspace.  Of course,
in what I just said there's a lot of ifs ands and buts, and it is probable
that this is not possible.  However, I give this admittedly crazy example to
indicate that we got to be open-minded about everything, because we just don't
know everything.

Jon Noring

--
=============================================================================
| Jon Noring          | [e-mail] | "The dogs bark, but the  |
| JKN International   | IP    : 192.100.81.100   |  caravan moves on."      |
| 1312 Carlton Place  | Phone : [phone]   | "Pack your lunch, sit in |
| Livermore, CA 94550 | V-Mail: [phone]   |  the bushes, and watch." |
=============================================================================
"If you make $50,000 today, you have the same buying power as the average
coal miner did in 1949, adjusted for taxes and inflation," John Sestina,
nationally recognized Certified Financial Planner;  quoted in 1987.
Path: ns-mx!uunet!usc!sdd.hp.com!news.cs.indiana.edu!lynx!server.cs.uri.edu!digiacom
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.postmodern,alt.religion.kibology,alt.sex,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: La, la, la...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 18 Mar 92 18:04:34 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: University of Rhode Island, Computer Science Dept.
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Xref: ns-mx alt.postmodern:2375 alt.religion.kibology:1231 alt.sex:59121 alt.alien.visitors:4963

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Joshua Abbey) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Bat Rastard) writes:
>>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Michael Wasylik) writes...
>>>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (David Gundlach) writes:
>>>>And then in <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Bat Rastard) said...
>>>>% In article <[e-mail]>, <[e-mail]> writes...
>>>>% >In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail]
>>>>% >(Tom Hamill) says:
>>>>% >>In article [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>>>% >>>In article [e-mail] (Paul D Evans) writes:
>>>>% >>>>In article [e-mail] (Chris Colby) writes:
>>>>% >>>>> In article [e-mail] (Lawrence C. Foard) writes:
>>>>% >>>>> >In article [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>>>% >>>>>
>>>>% >>>>> >>  GEE, I'M SURE GLAD THAT .SIGNATURE VIRUSES ARE PASSE.
>>>>% >>>>>
>>>>% >>>>> >They will just mutate to get around it!
>>>>% >>>>>
>>>>% >>>>> >Evolution is god!
>>>>% >>>>> Sanitation is fraud:
>>>>% >>>>Sandinistas ate Maude.
>>>>% >>>Santa Claus baits God.
>>>>% >>>Satan Claws Bates Dog!  Film At Eleven!
>>>>% >>Satin draws mates bod.
>>>>% >I sat in Ward's tame knob.
>>>>% I set a weird time bomb.
>>>>I shed a weird tie, Bob...
>>>I shot a wet teen babe.
>>Izod's a wasp trend, Biff.
>I saw a rasp tend a skiff!
>
>                -Josh
>
>
>--
>==)--------------      [e-mail]   (Josh Abbey)
>                "Ashes and diamonds, foe and friend,
>                 We were all equal in the end."  - Pink Floyd
>                                      --------------(==
Path: ns-mx!uunet!polari!rwing!eskimo!nanook
From: [e-mail] (Robert Dinse)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Distance
Keywords: Too far?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 18 Mar 92 05:46:31 GMT
Organization: <<< ESKIMO NORTH (206)-FOR-EVER >>>
Lines: 31


    I believe that the distances from other star systems is not too great to
be bridged, and that it is likely that aliens have visited us and perhaps are
even doing so in a regular basis.

    We know too little about the universe, how it works, to exclude that
possibility.  We can't yet unite the forces of nature.  Try as we might, we
don't REALLY understand gravity, space, time, or what a vacuum really is.
Oh I believe in time, that understanding will come, but we do not have it,
on a physical level yet, on an intuitive one, I think there are some people
who do.

    I say we shouldn't exclude the possibilities before we examine them.
Don't exclude the possibility of intersteller travel, or even intergalactic
travel, until we completely understand the nature of the universe.  I do not
believe, that once we have that understanding, such travel will be ruled out.

    In 1948, most people, with the exception of a few visionaries, would
have ruled out the possibility of man-made objects in orbit, 20 years later
we have men walking on the moon.  I believe all things are possible, but for
those who won't grant me that, at least accept that there are possibilities
beyond what most of us even dream.

    As our understanding progresses, I think the likelihood of alien
encounters also increases, both because we'll be "out there" more often, and
because we'll be emotionally more prepared to deal with something foreign to
our way of thinking, it will be a necessary adaptation for our long term
survival.  Relatively advanced alien cultures will most likely be aware of
this.

    Life is exciting, not knowing what new things await us around the corner!
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!sei.cmu.edu!fs7.ece.cmu.edu!pellns.alleg.edu!news
From: [e-mail] (Jennifer Bolt)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: terraforming
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 18 Mar 92 19:50:12 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Allegheny College
Lines: 24

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Bryan
Bankhead) writes:
> I have, for some time, thought that terraforming was a waste of time and
> energy.  the energy requirments just for a conversion of mars'
atmosphere
> are in the neiborhood of 10^23 calories.  for that energy ;you could
build
> enough O'niel type space colonies to have many times mar's availabe
> surface area.  I fail to understand this fascination with living on
> planets.  Why climb bacck down into a gravity well after spending so
much
> ingenuity getting out?
>
>  This is from
>      [e-mail]
> who doesn't have their own obnoxious signature yet

While it would require alot of energy to terraform any planet, it is
possible that methods which require little initial energy input, but which
once begun draw energy from natural processes energy efficency could be
achieved.  Such as introducing life forms which have been engineered to
harness available energies to convert the atmosphere.

Jen
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!wupost!m.cs.uiuc.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!uxa.cso.uiuc.edu!jbh55289
From: [e-mail] (Josh 'K' Hopkins)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space
Subject: Re: Mars needs oxygen, Venus has too much.
Keywords: Mars, Venus, Terraforming
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 18 Mar 92 23:59:58 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <1l8hx#[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (News)
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    [Various stuff on terraforming Mars and Venus deleted]

    There was an interesting article in Analog a while back on the concept
of terraforming Venus.  The basic concept was to mine Mercury (with self
replicating machines of course) and shoot massive amounts of material at Venus.
My memory and chemistry are a little weak here, but I'm guessing the author
was trying to react out the carbon in the atmosphere and make limestone or some
thing along those lines.  There were several problems, one of which was that
dropping a few teratons of rock on Venus would heat up the atmosphere, the
other significant problem was that you'd have something like 60 atmospheres of
oxygen and not much else.  The benefit was that you'd have a nice new planet
to play with, and in the process, you would strip all the 'useless' crust off
Mercury and have access to a large metallic core.  Needless to say, the author
wasn't trying to get funding for such a project, he was just tossing the idea
around.

    I recommend _The Greening of Mars_ as an easy to read introduction
to the subject for folks who don't want numbers and formulas.

                Josh Hopkins
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!wupost!uunet!mcsun!uknet!warwick!covpoly!cck.coventry.ac.uk!apf042
From: [e-mail] (ozzy)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space
Subject: Re: Mars needs oxygen, Venus has too much.
Keywords: Mars, Venus, Terraforming
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 18 Mar 92 23:34:26 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (john bayko) writes:
>In article
>     <[e-mail]>
>     [e-mail] (Phil G. Fraering)
>writes:
>>[e-mail] (Frank Stuart Brown) writes:
>>

>>Venus will only become habitable if someone makes it so. It would
>>require a lot of energy to remove its atmosphere.
>
>    If so, why not put it to good use? It may be interesting to speculate
>on terraforming both Venus and Mars by transferring excess atmosphere from
>one to the other.


Naaaaaah.... this would take up to much time. Get the polar ice caps on
  Mars...hook them up to an *ENORMOUS* power supply, and simply have some
  sort of filter to the hydrogen. (after all we dont want any nasty explosions)
  This way is probably cheaper as fuel for transferring oxygen from one planet
  to another is going to be very high

With Venus all you have to do is start a massive chain reaction that frees
oxygen from CO2 produced, although I aint quite sure how to go about this one...


[ lots of groovy stuff deleted ]


ozzy  :)






--
ozzy : [e-mail]
We got positivity cruisin' on a wave, We got every dream recorded loaded up
and ready to save, feed off that power thats in your dreams, mass total energy
from things unseen     - MaxQ  Everything.
Path: ns-mx!uunet!sun-barr!lll-winken!lintilla!loren
From: [e-mail] (Loren Petrich)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan,talk.religion.newage,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Creating Peace On Earth by 2000 !
Keywords: Peace Clock
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 19 Mar 92 02:50:46 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Followup-To: alt.pagan
Organization: LLNL
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Nntp-Posting-Host: lintilla.llnl.gov

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Beth Lung) writes:
> In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:
>
> In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (John Emery) writes:

> John>Please share what you are referring to, Janis.

> Janis>Oh, how about "In pain shall you bring forth children.  You shall remain
> Janis>in subjugation to your husband all your life, but your wishes shall be
> Janis>for him."

> Janis>How about when Lot sent his two virgin daughters out into a ravening mob
> Janis>of men so they would stop beating down his door?
>
> Janis>How about "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live?"
>
> Janis>How about "And the men of the city shall stone her with stones?"

> Perhapse, John, you might care to read _The Challis and the Blade_
> (unfortunatly I cannot remember the author's name right now) I think
> it would provide you with some more -enlightening- examples.

    It's _The Chalice and the Blade_ by Riane Eisler.
    Also check out _When God was a Woman_ by Merlin Stone.

    I wonder what John Emery thinks about the latter book
especially. I challenged him to come up with a Fundie exploitation of
Goddess-worship.

    I have a file full of Biblical embarrassments that I call my
Biblical Satanic Verses, available by e-mail. Here is a sample:


Sexism (it is hard to get a Bible banger on this one, but some of them
vehemently deny being sexist) -- In Genesis 2, Adam and Eve get kicked
out of the Garden of Eden just because Eve was conned into eating that
fruit by a certain mischievous snake. In one of the "Ten Commandments"
(Exodus 20:17, Deuteronomy 5:21), one is not supposed to desire one's
neighbor's land, house, wife, slaves, cattle, donkeys, or anything
else of his. Notice how women are lumped in with the rest of a man's
property. Jesus Christ was rather rude to his mother at Cana. Paul
states that (1 Corinthians 11) women are to be subject to men in the
same way that men are subject to God; that women exist for the sake of
men, and not men for the sake of women; that men are the image and
glory of God, while women are the image and glory of men; and that
women should keep their heads covered to indicate that they are under
their husbands' authority. Women should wear their hair long in order
to cover their heads, while men are to keep their hair short; this is
because men are the image and glory of God, while women are the image
and glory of men. Also, (1 Corinthians 14:34,35) women are to be
silent in church, and should let their husbands instruct them. (1
Timothy 2:11,12) Women are supposed to learn and not teach. (1 Peter
3:1-7) Women should submit to their husbands and should look plain;
they should call their husbands their masters, as Sarah had called
Abraham.


$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Loren Petrich, the Master Blaster: [e-mail]

Since this nodename is not widely known, you may have to try:

[e-mail]
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!yale!mintaka.lcs.mit.edu!spdcc!dirtydog.ima.isc.com!ispd-newsserver!psinntp!visix!news
From: [e-mail] (Amanda Walker)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.pagan,alt.paranormal,talk.religion.newage
Subject: Re: Creating Peace On Earth by 2000 !
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 18 Mar 92 22:41:34 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
    <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
    <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
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[e-mail] (John Emery) writes:
> But my
> Lord Jesus offers such eternal words, "Peace I leave with you; my peace I
> give to you.  I do not give to you as the world gives.  Do not let your
> hearts be troubled and do not be afraid."

That's not all he said, though.  Take a look at Matthew 10:34-36, for
example ("Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth;
it is not peace I have come to bring, but a sword...").

> Amanda, please share with the readers how your source of peace is found
> in these writings.  Of particular interest, what have you found in the
> Quran that brings you peace?  And how does it bring you peace?

"And if they incline to peace, then incline to it and trust in Allah;
surely He is the Hearing, the Kknowing."    Quran 8:61

"And Allah invites to the abode of peace and guides whom He pleases into
 the right path."    --Quran 10:25

Feel free to read it.  It's a fascinating text, full of subtle humor and
wisdom.

> Amanda, if peace is already in everyone's heart, it sure has a way of
> disguising itself.  Look around you.  Is the world around you full of
> peace?

Parts of it are indeed....

> Thank you.  I pray that He does.  And not only I, but yourself and all
> those who are reading, whom He calls out to.

Chuckle.  I think you may be jumping to conclusions here :)...


Amanda Walker                              [e-mail]
Visix Software Inc.                    ...!uupsi!visix.com!amanda
--
"Specialization is for insects."    --Robert A. Heinlein
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!batcomputer!cornell!uw-beaver!pullen
From: [e-mail] (Walter D. Pullen)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal,talk.religion.newage
Subject: ANTAHKARANA: The Star People Connection
Summary: A plan for sharing and growing
Keywords: Antahkarana
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 19 Mar 92 03:41:11 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: University of Washington Computer Science
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               ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
               ||                                      ||
               ||    A Plan for Sharing and Growing    ||
               ||             ANTAHKARANA,             ||
               ||      THE STAR PEOPLE CONNECTION      ||
               ||                                      ||
               ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

     In the year of 1984, a group energy concept called Antahkarana
was given to the planet. In the ensuing years many phases of the Star
People Connection have been pursued to the present moment. Now the
plans for expansion are appropriate.

     We wish to present the following plan for your consideration. A
headquarters for national growth and development will be located in
Seattle, Washington. We are accepting applications for Coordinators of
other major areas within your state and Network Coordinators in
outlying areas connected to the nearest branch.

     The Seattle Branch will serve as a template for the further
expansion to other major cities in neighboring states. Those combined
energies will be designated regions and our plan is to ultimately
connect with each other through the National Headquarters.

     The purpose of a branch is to offer the higher, appropriate
energies a focus through which the plan for the further spiritual
development can manifest. Antahkarana is a group of "DO IT" people
whose purpose is to bring forth the energies of the Three Fold Flame.
The Three Fold Flame is represented as that which is focused through
the Heart chakra of Love, Wisdom, and Power.

     The aforementioned energies are focused through three identified,
out of body, groups: The Angelic Kingdom, The Masters of the Planetary
Hierarchy, and the Intergalactic Confederation of Space Brotherhood.
These three paths are honored individually although a particular group
or individual may have a particular focus.

     The major purpose on the Earth plane is to offer mutual support
to Star People/Light Workers to pursue their individual path of
spiritual growth while cooperating with the Greater Plan of Personal
and Planetary Ascension. Let it be known that we believe this
evolvement is happening throughout the omniverse.

     An emphasis is on the development of the Star Person/Light Worker
through cooperation with their greater self and other aspects
sometimes referred to as starseeds or walk-ins. A spirit of
cooperation is to be fostered on all levels and the art of negotiation
with spirit to perform the appropriate bridging between all levels and
dimensions.

     The participants in Antahkarana, The Star People connection, are
taught the Top Down View, "A Unifying Perspective of the Visitor
Experience," dealing with discernment of the various energies
contacting the earth plane individuals and groups. The most important
idea is to honor all paths.

     A spirit of cooperation with other Light Groups is fostered and
participation in Antahkarana is available to those who resonate with
the aims and purposes as published in the statement of purpose.

     The overlying emphasis is on creating a strong spirit of unity
rather than separation. The individual is honored and taught how to
integrate into the grater whole. Bridging on all levels, both vertical
and horizontal, is promoted.

     We are seeking Light Workers who have a strong sense of
dedication and commitment to their path with a great sense of the
evolving events happening on the planet and with the aim of assisting
the higher realms to manifest that plan on Earth. The individual is
able to maximize his need for spiritual growth while simultaneously
participating in the greater good for all.

     In every sense of the usage, Antahkarana: The Star People
Connection, is about building bridges and coming from the heart. The
original Sanskrit work means "The Bridge" and is the esoteric word for
the bridge between the heart and head and the bridge between Heaven
and Earth.

||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

     ANTAHKARANA is for YOU. It is to assist you in becoming all that
you have chosen to be. We offer you the following opportunities to
experience:

  o  Something that will bring joy to your spiritual body and expand
     awareness of your greater self.
  o  A challenge for your mental body by assisting you to get a top
     down view and a unifying perspective of the mass of material
     regarding the visitor experience.
  o  Fun for your emotional body, support and fellowship. Balance to
     your physical body as it enters into its full potential as a
     light body/upper dimensional being of divine origin.
  o  Wonderful opportunities for networking and support with your
     individual path through such activities as our "Ambassadors from
     the Stars Talent Bank," a newsletter and a monthly networking
     conclave potluck.

     We have enjoyed meeting you in the past. We send you our love and
goodwill. We hope to see you again. As we close all of our activities
by saying, so also will we close this letter: "In Love we come
together, in Love we serve together, in Love we share together and in
Love we shall come together again."

     PEACE, LOVE, AND LIGHT

     ARASIA

     Coordinator, Antahkarana International
     501 N. 36th St., #140, Seattle, WA 98103

||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

                           ANTAHKARANA IS:

  o  For Star People who want to come out of the closet.
  o  For Star People who want to stand up and be counted.
  o  For those who want to reach up and reach out.
  o  For Star People who want to remember their heritage and accept
     their destiny.
  o  A "Do it" group that believes just knowing is not doing.
  o  A belief that no one is perfect or has to have all the answers
     before he/she starts.
  o  A belief in love, support and fellowship.
  o  A belief that spirituality can be fun.

So -- If you believe you may also be on "Earth Assignment", come and
check us out! If you are interested in joining a group of Antahkarana
or starting your own branch, or if you have any questions in general,
feel free to contact Arasia at the above address or e-mail me at the
address below. Together, we will bridge between Heaven and Earth!


||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
||   Walter D "Arbaline" Pullen   [e-mail]   ||
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Path: ns-mx!uunet!munnari.oz.au!bruce!trlluna!titan!hal!jbm
From: [e-mail] (Jacques Guy)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: The Talmud as Given by Judas Iscariot
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 19 Mar 92 04:11:40 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <=[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: Telecom Research Labs, Melbourne, Australia
Lines: 27


It's a blatant, childish fake.

No Judas Iscariot would have written that "Immanuel"
means "the one with godly knowledge". "Immanuel" was
a common given name, the etymology of which was obvious
to Aramaic and Hebrew speakers: "God (is) with us".

It makes as much sense as an English speaker saying:
"Goldsmith" means "the one with the ears of an ass".

And:

3:28  But Jmmanuel answered him
3:31  Consequently they all...

Aramaic, Hebrew, and, for that matter, Arabic, do not
use such conjunctions as "but", "consequently" etc.
to link sentences. They just use "and" throughout.

The style is phoney King James's Bible, adapted by
ignoramuses: "Jacob BEGOT Joseph". "BEGOT"????

At $16 or so, it's far too expensive. The Book of
Mormon is a better read. And cheaper -- I got mine
for 10 cents at a charity fete. Or try the Book of
Urantia. Now THAT is a masterpiece!
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!apple!portal!cup.portal.com!Don_-_Showen
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.drugs,alt.psychoactives
Subject: A Message from Psilocybin
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 19 Mar 92 02:43:16 GMT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 119
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4972 alt.drugs:23720 alt.psychoactives:749


Our opinions in this matter do not rest upon the opinions of others nor upon

anything written instead they rest upon the experience of the mushroom

psilocybin at the 10 mg level; at that level a peculiar phenomenon occurs. It

is the emergence of an l-Thou relationship between the person taking the

psilocybin and the mental state it evokes. Jung calls this "transference" and

it was a necessary condition of early and primitive humanity's relationship to

its gods and demons. The mushroom speaks, and our opinions rest upon what it

tells eloquently of itself in the cool night of the mind:


"I am old, older than thought in your species, which is itself fifty times

older than your history. Though I have been on earth for ages I am from the

stars. My home is no one planet, for many worlds scattered through the shining

disc of the galaxy have conditions which allow my spores an opportunity for

life. The mushroom which you see is the part of my body given to sex thrills

and sun bathing, my true body is a fine network of fibers growing through the

soil. These networks may cover acres and may have far more connections that

the number in a human brain. My mycelial network is nearly immortal only the

sudden toxification of a planet or the explosion of its parent star can wipe

me out. By means impossible to explain because of certain misconceptions in

your model of reality all my mycelial networks in the galaxy are in hyperlight

communication across space and time. The mycelial body is as fragile as a

spider's web but the collective hypermind and memory is a vast historical

archive of the career of evolving intelligence on many worlds in our spiral

star swarm. Space, you see, is a vast ocean to those hardy life forms that

have the ability to reproduce from spores, for spores are covered with the

hardest organic substance known. Across the aeons of time and space drift many

spore-forming life-forms in suspended animation for millions of years until

contact is made with a suitable environment. Few such species are minded, only

myself and my recently evolved near relatives have achieved the

hyper-communication mode and memory capacity that makes us leading members in

the community of galactic intelligence. How the hypercommunication mode

operates is a secret which will not be lightly given to man. But the means

should be obvious: it is the occurrence of psilocybin and psilocin in the

biosynthetic pathways of my living body that opens for me and my symbiots the

vision screens to many worlds. You as an individual and man as a species are

on the brink of the formation of a symbiotic relationship with my genetic

material that will eventually carry humanity and earth into the galactic

mainstream of the higher civilizations.


"Since it is not easy for you to recognize other varieties of intelligence

around you, your most advanced theories of politics and society have advanced

only as far as the notion of collectivism. But beyond the cohesion of the

members of a species into a single social organism there lie richer and even

more baroque evolutionary possibilities. Symbiosis is one of these. Symbiosis

is a relation of mutual dependence and positive benefits for both of the

species involved. Symbiotic relationships between myself and civilized forms

of higher animals have been established many times and in many places

throughout the long ages of my development. These relationships have been

mutually useful; within my memory is the knowledge of hyperlight drive ships

and how to build them. I will trade this knowledge for a free ticket to new

worlds around suns younger and more stable than your own. To secure an eternal

existence down the long river of cosmic time I again and again offer this

agreement to higher beings and thereby have spread throughout the galaxy over

the long millennia. A mycelial network has no organs to move the world, no

hands; but higher animals with manipulative abilities can become partners with

the star knowledge within me and if they act in good faith, return both

themselves and their humble mushroom teacher to the million worlds all

citizens of our starswarm are heir to."


From the book Psilocybin - Magic Mushroom Grower s Guide by O.T. Oss & O.N.

Oeric
Path: ns-mx!uunet!usc!apple!netcomsv!mork!payner
From: [e-mail] (Rich Payne)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space
Subject: Re: Mars needs oxygen, Venus has too much.
Keywords: Mars, Venus, Terraforming
Message-ID: <2w0h3#[e-mail]>
Date: 19 Mar 92 06:33:05 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (ozzy) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (john bayko) writes:
>>In article
>>     <[e-mail]>
>>     [e-mail] (Phil G. Fraering)
>>writes:
>>>[e-mail] (Frank Stuart Brown) writes:
>>>
>
>>>Venus will only become habitable if someone makes it so. It would
>>>require a lot of energy to remove its atmosphere.
>>
>>    If so, why not put it to good use? It may be interesting to speculate
>>on terraforming both Venus and Mars by transferring excess atmosphere from
>>one to the other.
>
>
>Naaaaaah.... this would take up to much time. Get the polar ice caps on
>  Mars...hook them up to an *ENORMOUS* power supply, and simply have some
>  sort of filter to the hydrogen. (after all we dont want any nasty explosions)
>  This way is probably cheaper as fuel for transferring oxygen from one planet
>  to another is going to be very high

The Martian caps are seasonal. There are not gigatons of material, but
rather a thin layer which evaporates in the summer. You will not get as
much out of the caps as you might think.

>With Venus all you have to do is start a massive chain reaction that frees
>oxygen from CO2 produced, although I aint quite sure how to go about this one..

One thing about chain reactions, they tend to be uncontrolled. They go until
one of the reactants are gone. Whatever the results, this seem to result
in another non-equlibrium condition which would seemingly be no closer to
allowing living conitions. And there may be unanticipated side effects.

This may not be as simple as it might seem. But then, things rarely are.

>
>[ lots of groovy stuff deleted ]
>
>
>ozzy  :)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>--
>ozzy : [e-mail]
>We got positivity cruisin' on a wave, We got every dream recorded loaded up
>and ready to save, feed off that power thats in your dreams, mass total energy
>from things unseen     - MaxQ  Everything.

Rich

[e-mail]
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!ut-emx!shrike!milano!cactus.org!roth
From: [e-mail] (Mark Roth)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.pagan,alt.paranormal,talk.religion.newage
Subject: Re: Creating Peace On Earth by 2000 !
Summary: Here we go again....
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 19 Mar 92 04:42:16 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Followup-To: alt.pagan
Organization: Capital Area Central Texas Unix Society, Austin, TX
Lines: 41
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4974 alt.pagan:13618 alt.paranormal:4672 talk.religion.newage:9837


John Emery writes a lot of stuff, responding to Amanda responding to him.
I think I tried to post a few days ago about this, but I doubt it got out -
hardware/software changes at work.

John, Fine, JC brings you peace. I've know a few other followers of his that
had that. I've also known a few other folks, who were *not*, who had peace.
All I see is that it sems to depend on the individual, not the belief system.
Were you trying to say, in yct Amanda, that no one ever got peace through
the Quran? Bear in mind that there are probably at least as many Muslims as
Xians inthe world. None of them ever found peace? No buddhists, hindus, or
pagans ever found peace? Sorry. The data contridicts this assertion.

Were you asserting that the internal overrides the external? I see, the old
inheritance vs environment debate. Again, what evidence I've seen supports
*both* as the answer. You don't sit and contemplate your navel: the buddhas
were those that achieved enlightenment, and did not go into it, but hung
around to help the rest of us. You need to work on the external, as well
as the internal world. One without the other don't work.

Now that we've dealt with the, will you please go quote your book at somebody
who'd enjoy it? Please read the newsgroups you're posting to, and *EDIT*THE*
DAMN*THING*! Posting to alt.pagan is on par with posting to soc.religion.
muslim, or judiaism.


/* ************************************************************************** *
 *  1. How *DARE* you attribute these opinions to anyone other than me!       *
 *  2. Would *YOU* lay claim to such opinions, if they weren't yours?         *
 * ************************************************************************** */
 *                                                         *
 *        Mark Silverdragon                                            *
 *                                                         *
 *                    mark ([e-mail])                             *
 *___________________________________________________________________________*/
Etymology, n.:
    Some early etymological scholars come up with derivations that
were hard for the public to believe.  The term "etymology" was formed
from the Latin "etus" ("eaten"), the root "mal" ("bad"), and "logy"
("study of").  It meant "the study of things that are hard to swallow."
        -- Mike Kellen
Path: ns-mx!uunet!usc!rpi!usenet.coe.montana.edu!masscomp!peora!tarpit!tous!bilver!dona
From: [e-mail] (Don Allen)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: The Talmud as Given by Judas Iscariot
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 18 Mar 92 20:07:58 GMT
References: <![e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL
Lines: 22

>
>    Thats what I would like to know... All these so called professional
>video technowizards with there whinning about being a hoax. Proof it!
>I know! Billy is really `The Lawnmower Man' and he did it all in Virtual
>Reality. :-))) Really!!! Its all `Virtual Reality' on Film. Mind over matter
>thats why you couldn't see any fishing line :-).
>
>Steve

hehehe.....I suppose that Billy "hoaxed" the Jmmanuel document,Semjase's words
and worked it so as to be shot at too!

Damn realistic VR if ya ask me :-))

Don


--
-* Don Allen *-               // Only   | Are you ready for SETI?
Internet: [e-mail]  \X/ Amiga   | Oct 12,1992 - ET comes to NM
UUCP: .........uunet!peora!bilver!dona  | The *real* "October Surprise"
Psi-Tech and alien brain-wave research -- Whats going on at Los Alamos?
Path: ns-mx!uunet!decwrl!amdcad!sono!mathur
From: [e-mail] (Sarvesh Mathur)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Utah objects
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 19 Mar 92 02:11:01 GMT
Organization: Acuson; Mountain View, California
Lines: 34

Did anyone ever get any info on the objects supposedly found
near Ogden, Utah?


the last I heard:
--------------------
In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (SYSTEM 0PERATOR) writes:
>Hi: Has anyone heard any more on those strange objects that were found
>during a dig at a toxic waste dump in Ogden Utah? Have not heard any
>more on that for weeks.

Very few people have heard anything, me included.  Apparently Guy Kirkwood
has photos but hasn't made any copies for anyone.  I have a couple of .GIF
files (don't ask me for them, I've only got a 2400 baud connection to the
UUCP network) which contain a rough sketch of one of the objects and a
tracing of some of the writing; these were made from Kirkwood's pictures.
The sketch is completely unrecognizable to me, but others have said it
looks like some sort of drilling machine.  The writing looks like Arabic,
and I've heard that some of the letters can be translated but they don't
form any words.

>I am interested because I may be passing through that area in a few
>weeks, and would like to stop by and take a look!

The location is still unknown to me.  (It's not Ogden; it was described as
a certain distance away from Ogden, but I'm not sure even that is
accurate.)  Peggy Noonan on ParaNet is trying to cover the story for OMNI,
but I don't know how much she knows and she can't say much anyway before
the article is published.

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sarvesh Mathur
[e-mail]
Path: ns-mx!uunet!think.com!yale.edu!jvnc.net!haught
From: [e-mail] (Darrell Haught)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Tape from the shuttle
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 19 Mar 92 12:13:58 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (Zee News Genie)
Organization: JvNCnet, Princeton University, NJ
Lines: 13
Originator: [e-mail]
Nntp-Posting-Host: nisc.jvnc.net

I was watching ch. 52(New Jersey Network) and on NJ Tonight they had
a UFO investigator named Michael Keller. Has anybody heard of this guy.
He investigates sighting in the Tri State area. Well anyways I remember
somebody mention some tape that leaked out of NASA that has actual
footage of UFO's but NASA claims it is space junk. This guy has the tape
and will show it this weekend. He is giving a talk Fri and Sat. @the
Princeton Ramada on RT.1 free to the pub from 8-1100 pm. I am going to
to call the Ramada just to confirmed what I heard. I will Post my
findings if there is enough people interested.

Darrell
[e-mail]

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From: [e-mail] (Shava Nerad Averett)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan,talk.religion.newage,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: The chalice and the blade (Re: Creating Peace On Earth by 2000 !)
Keywords: Peace Clock
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 18 Mar 92 23:50:50 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill
Lines: 12
Xref: ns-mx alt.pagan:13622 talk.religion.newage:9838 alt.paranormal:4673 alt.alien.visitors:4978
Nntp-Posting-Host: gibbs.oit.unc.edu

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Beth Lung) writes:
->Perhaps, John, you might care to read _The Challis and the Blade_
->(unfortunatly I cannot remember the author's name right now) I think
->it would provide you with some more -enlightening- examples.

Riane Eisler.  I think that's the author's name...

--
Shava Nerad Averett                [e-mail]
/*  all materials (c)1992, Shava Nerad Averett, and have nothing significant
    to do with the University of North Carolina, a mostly owned subsidiary
    of the NC Legislature, a mostly owned subsidiary of the DOT.      */
Path: ns-mx!uunet!seas.smu.edu!utacfd.uta.edu!trsvax!rwsys!sdf!hideo
From: [e-mail] (David Carter)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Q&A on Extraterrestrial Abductions and Visitations
Keywords: Crap
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 19 Mar 92 06:15:30 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: sdf Public Access UNIX, Dallas--unrestricted free shell access
Lines: 35

Hey Jennifer!

What's wrong with a little channeling?

The entire hit TV series Green Acres was made possible by

channeling the disembodied spirit of some old Martian nobody.

Now THAT'S quality viewing, and there are many wise morals worked

into the plotlines and eerie predictions that PROVE the script

COULD NOT BE THE WORK OF AN EARTHLY ENTITY!!!!!!!

The talking pig, Arnold, was actually the 'conduit' these

messages were channeled through. Arnold was rather tellingly

executed by a Grenedan Guerilla Unit in the late 70's, prompting

President Reagan's (admittedly tardy) retribution.



Just a theory.



David Carter           : URANUS: not truly a place
aka Hideo Gump         : where the Sun don't shine,
Dallas, Texas USA      : but certainly a place where
[e-mail] : the Sun shines faintly!


r
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From: [e-mail] (Brad Baillod)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.drugs,alt.psychoactives
Subject: Re: A Message from Psilocybin
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 19 Mar 92 15:17:27 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Mr. News)
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor
Lines: 11
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4980 alt.drugs:23736 alt.psychoactives:751

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>Our opinions in this matter do not rest upon the opinions of others nor upon
>anything written instead they rest upon the experience of the mushroom
                                                               ^^^^^^^^
>psilocybin at the 10 mg level; at that level a peculiar phenomenon occurs. It
                   ^^^^^
Well, I think the authors here mean 10 grams, since the usual dose is about
two grams.

--
Brad Baillod                        [e-mail]
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!apple!nsj
From: [e-mail] (Neal Johnson)
Newsgroups: alt.postmodern,alt.religion.kibology,alt.sex,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: La, la, la...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 19 Mar 92 16:08:46 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Apple Computer Inc., Cupertino, CA
Lines: 36
Xref: ns-mx alt.postmodern:2388 alt.religion.kibology:1242 alt.sex:59231 alt.alien.visitors:4981

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Bat Rastard) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Tom Hamill) writes...
>>In article [e-mail] (David Gundlach) writes:
>>>And then in [e-mail] (Daniel Dise) said...
>>>% In article [e-mail] (Bat Rastard) writes:
>>>% >In article [e-mail] (Michael Wasylik) writes...
>>>% >>In article [e-mail] (David Gundlach) writes:
>>>% >>>And then in [e-mail] (Bat Rastard) said...
>>>% >>>% In article <[e-mail]> writes...
>>>% >>>% >In article [e-mail] (Tom Hamill) says:
>>>% >>>% >>In article [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>>% >>>% >>>In article [e-mail] (Paul D Evans) writes:
>>>% >>>% >>>>In article [e-mail] (Chris Colby) writes:
>>>% >>>% >>>>> In article [e-mail] (Lawrence C. Foard) writes:
>>>% >>>% >>>>> >In article [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>>% >>>% >>>>>
>>>% >>>% >>>>> >>  GEE, I'M SURE GLAD THAT .SIGNATURE VIRUSES ARE PASSE.
>>>% >>>% >>>>>
>>>% >>>% >>>>> >They will just mutate to get around it!
>>>% >>>% >>>>>
>>>% >>>% >>>>> >Evolution is god!
>>>% >>>% >>>>> Sanitation is fraud:
>>>% >>>% >>>>Sandinistas ate Maude.
>>>% >>>% >>>Santa Claus baits God.
>>>% >>>% >>>Satan Claws Bates Dog!  Film At Eleven!
>>>% >>>% >>Satin draws mates bod.
>>>% >>>% >I sat in Ward's tame knob.
>>>% >>>% I set a weird time bomb.
>>>% >>>I shed a weird tie, Bob...
>>>% >>I shot a wet teen babe.
>>>% >Izod's a wasp trend, Biff.
>>>% I drove off a west end cliff
>>>I rode to arrest a lift.
>>Electrodes tie my wrists.
>Erode the Mai Tai wisps.
He rode the May Day WASPS.
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!sei.cmu.edu!fs7.ece.cmu.edu!pellns.alleg.edu!news
From: [e-mail] (Jennifer Bolt)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Q&A on Extraterrestrial Abductions and Visitations
Keywords: pig
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 19 Mar 92 16:35:30 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Allegheny College
Lines: 36

In article <[e-mail]>
[e-mail] (David Carter) writes:
> Hey Jennifer!
>
> What's wrong with a little channeling?
>
> The entire hit TV series Green Acres was made possible by
>
> channeling the disembodied spirit of some old Martian nobody.
>
> Now THAT'S quality viewing, and there are many wise morals worked
>
> into the plotlines and eerie predictions that PROVE the script
>
> COULD NOT BE THE WORK OF AN EARTHLY ENTITY!!!!!!!
>
> The talking pig, Arnold, was actually the 'conduit' these
>
> messages were channeled through. Arnold was rather tellingly
>
> executed by a Grenedan Guerilla Unit in the late 70's, prompting
>
> President Reagan's (admittedly tardy) retribution.
>
>
>
> Just a theory.
>
>
>
 Actually this theory seems plausible.  Or at least as believable as any
other acount of channeling.

       Jen

But I wouldn't go Out On A Limb for it !
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!utgpu!cunews!wcstom
From: [e-mail] (Tom Hamill)
Newsgroups: alt.postmodern,alt.religion.kibology,alt.sex,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: La, la, la...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 19 Mar 92 18:49:17 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: tom hamill
Followup-To: alt.postmodern,alt.religion.kibology,alt.sex,alt.alien.visitors
Organization: Carleton University, Ottawa, Canada
Lines: 46
Xref: ns-mx alt.postmodern:2390 alt.religion.kibology:1243 alt.sex:59246 alt.alien.visitors:4983

In article [e-mail] (Bat Rastard) writes:
>In article [e-mail] (Tom Hamill) writes...
>>In article [e-mail] (David Gundlach) writes:
>>>In article [e-mail] (Daniel Dise) said...
>>>%In article [e-mail] (Bat Rastard) writes:
>>>%>In article [e-mail] (Michael Wasylik) writes...
>>>%>>In article [e-mail] (David Gundlach) writes:
>>>%>>>In article [e-mail] (Bat Rastard) said...
>>>%>>>%In article <[e-mail]> writes...
>>>%>>>%>In article [e-mail] (Tom Hamill) says:
>>>%>>>%>>In article [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>>%>>>%>>>In article [e-mail] (Paul D Evans) writes:
>>>%>>>%>>>>In article [e-mail] (Chris Colby) writes:
>>>%>>>%>>>>>In article [e-mail](Lawrence C. Foard) writes:
>>>%>>>%>>>>>>In article [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>>%>>>%>>>>>
>>>%>>>%>>>>>>>  GEE, I'M SURE GLAD THAT .SIGNATURE VIRUSES ARE PASSE.
>>>%>>>%>>>>>
>>>%>>>%>>>>>>They will just mutate to get around it!
>>>%>>>%>>>>>
>>>%>>>%>>>>>>Evolution is god!
>>>%>>>%>>>>>Sanitation is fraud:
>>>%>>>%>>>>Sandinistas ate Maude.
>>>%>>>%>>>Santa Claus baits God.
>>>%>>>%>>>Satan Claws Bates Dog!  Film At Eleven!
>>>%>>>%>>Satin draws mates bod.
>>>%>>>%>I sat in Ward's tame knob.
>>>%>>>%I set a weird time bomb.
>>>%>>>I shed a weird tie, Bob...
>>>%>>I shot a wet teen babe.
>>>%>Izod's a wasp trend, Biff.
>>>%I drove off a west end cliff
>>>I rode to arrest a lift.
>>Electrodes tie my wrists.
>Erode the Mai Tai wisps.
Erotic in tiny sips.

---tom

l~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~l
l      CRUSH---CompassionRespectUnderstandingSelfHonesty---CRUSH      l
l         How could you have ever lived your life without it?         l
l               Join Now, Apply Within.  Spread the word.             l
l_________________________         ---me, trying to save the world,   l
l [e-mail] l                         from itself.       l
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Path: ns-mx!uunet!think.com!linus!linus!news
From: [e-mail] (Keith Lewis)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.drugs,alt.psychoactives
Subject: Re: A Message from Psilocybin
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 19 Mar 92 17:19:39 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (News Service)
Organization: The MITRE Corporation
Lines: 17
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4984 alt.drugs:23745 alt.psychoactives:753
Nntp-Posting-Host: aera8700.mitre.org

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Brad Baillod) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>>Our opinions in this matter do not rest upon the opinions of others nor upon
>>anything written instead they rest upon the experience of the mushroom
>                                                               ^^^^^^^^
>>psilocybin at the 10 mg level; at that level a peculiar phenomenon occurs. It
>                   ^^^^^
>Well, I think the authors here mean 10 grams, since the usual dose is about
>two grams.

One or two grams of mushrooms, you mean.  I think he meant 10 mg of
psilocybin (the fun chemical contained therein).

Keith Lewis             [e-mail]          "Mr. Cheap"
Darryl Gates, George Bush's "ideal police officer", thinks Clarence Thomas,
a former casual drug user, should have been shot long ago.
The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!usenet.coe.montana.edu!nntp.uoregon.edu!cie.uoregon.edu!rtaylor
From: [e-mail] (Russ Taylor)
Newsgroups: alt.postmodern,alt.religion.kibology,alt.sex,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: La, la, la...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 19 Mar 92 19:19:33 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Campus Information Exchange, University of Oregon
Lines: 41
Xref: ns-mx alt.postmodern:2392 alt.religion.kibology:1245 alt.sex:59250 alt.alien.visitors:4985

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Tom Hamill) writes:
>In article [e-mail] (Bat Rastard) writes:
>>In article [e-mail] (Tom Hamill) writes...
>>>In article [e-mail] (David Gundlach) writes:
>>>>In article [e-mail] (Daniel Dise) said...
>>>>%In article [e-mail] (Bat Rastard) writes:
>>>>%>In article [e-mail] (Michael Wasylik) writes...
>>>>%>>In article [e-mail] (David Gundlach) writes:
>>>>%>>>In article [e-mail] (Bat Rastard) said...
>>>>%>>>%In article <[e-mail]> writes...
>>>>%>>>%>In article [e-mail] (Tom Hamill) says:
>>>>%>>>%>>In article [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>>>%>>>%>>>In article [e-mail] (Paul D Evans) writes:
>>>>%>>>%>>>>In article [e-mail] (Chris Colby) writes:
>>>>%>>>%>>>>>In article [e-mail](Lawrence C. Foard) writes:
>>>>%>>>%>>>>>>In article [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>>>%>>>%>>>>>
>>>>%>>>%>>>>>>>  GEE, I'M SURE GLAD THAT .SIGNATURE VIRUSES ARE PASSE.
>>>>%>>>%>>>>>
>>>>%>>>%>>>>>>They will just mutate to get around it!
>>>>%>>>%>>>>>
>>>>%>>>%>>>>>>Evolution is god!
>>>>%>>>%>>>>>Sanitation is fraud:
>>>>%>>>%>>>>Sandinistas ate Maude.
>>>>%>>>%>>>Santa Claus baits God.
>>>>%>>>%>>>Satan Claws Bates Dog!  Film At Eleven!
>>>>%>>>%>>Satin draws mates bod.
>>>>%>>>%>I sat in Ward's tame knob.
>>>>%>>>%I set a weird time bomb.
>>>>%>>>I shed a weird tie, Bob...
>>>>%>>I shot a wet teen babe.
>>>>%>Izod's a wasp trend, Biff.
>>>>%I drove off a west end cliff
>>>>I rode to arrest a lift.
>>>Electrodes tie my wrists.
>>Erode the Mai Tai wisps.
>Erotic in tiny sips.
Exotic Women in slips!

Russ
[e-mail]
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!yale!willamette.edu!dbeacham
From: [e-mail] (Daniel Beacham)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.drugs,alt.psychoactives
Subject: Re: A Message from Psilocybin
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 19 Mar 92 18:49:11 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Willamette University, Salem, OR
Lines: 8
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4986 alt.drugs:23746 alt.psychoactives:754


    While the average user consumes 2 g of 'shrooms, know that all of
that biomass is *not* psilocybin.  The guy that you were responding to was
quite accurate in his estimation that the average dose of *psilocybin* is
on the order of 10 mg.  Know that 2 g of refined psilocybin would send you
tripping balls into unreality for the short time that you lived after
consuming such a voluminous amount.
            Just a friendly reminder...
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From: [e-mail] (Po Shan Cheah)
Newsgroups: alt.postmodern,alt.religion.kibology,alt.sex,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: La, la, la...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 19 Mar 92 19:28:50 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (The Network News)
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Po Shan Cheah)
Organization: DINOLAND
Lines: 44
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Nntp-Posting-Host: cunixb.cc.columbia.edu

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Russ Taylor) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Tom Hamill) writes:
>>In article [e-mail] (Bat Rastard) writes:
>>>In article [e-mail] (Tom Hamill) writes...
>>>>In article [e-mail] (David Gundlach) writes:
>>>>>In article [e-mail] (Daniel Dise) said...
>>>>>%In article [e-mail] (Bat Rastard) writes:
>>>>>%>In article [e-mail] (Michael Wasylik) writes...
>>>>>%>>In article [e-mail] (David Gundlach) writes:
>>>>>%>>>In article [e-mail] (Bat Rastard) said...
>>>>>%>>>%In article <[e-mail]> writes...
>>>>>%>>>%>In article [e-mail] (Tom Hamill) says:
>>>>>%>>>%>>In article [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>>>>%>>>%>>>In article [e-mail] (Paul D Evans) writes:
>>>>>%>>>%>>>>In article [e-mail] (Chris Colby) writes:
>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>In article [e-mail](Lawrence C. Foard) writes:
>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>>In article [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>
>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>>>  GEE, I'M SURE GLAD THAT .SIGNATURE VIRUSES ARE PASSE.
>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>
>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>>They will just mutate to get around it!
>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>
>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>>Evolution is god!
>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>Sanitation is fraud:
>>>>>%>>>%>>>>Sandinistas ate Maude.
>>>>>%>>>%>>>Santa Claus baits God.
>>>>>%>>>%>>>Satan Claws Bates Dog!  Film At Eleven!
>>>>>%>>>%>>Satin draws mates bod.
>>>>>%>>>%>I sat in Ward's tame knob.
>>>>>%>>>%I set a weird time bomb.
>>>>>%>>>I shed a weird tie, Bob...
>>>>>%>>I shot a wet teen babe.
>>>>>%>Izod's a wasp trend, Biff.
>>>>>%I drove off a west end cliff
>>>>>I rode to arrest a lift.
>>>>Electrodes tie my wrists.
>>>Erode the Mai Tai wisps.
>>Erotic in tiny sips.
>Exotic Women in slips!
Eclectic cows without lips.

---------
Po Shan Cheah
[e-mail]
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!psuvax1!hsdndev!dartvax!mars.caps.maine.edu!maine.maine.edu!umasp
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space
Subject: Re: Mars needs oxygen, Venus has too much.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 19 Mar 92 02:42:46 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
 <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
 <[e-mail]>
 <[e-mail]>
Organization: University of Maine System
Lines: 13
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4988 sci.space:28135

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] says:
>
>In article <[e-mail]>,
>[e-mail] (john bayko) writes:
>
>
>> In orbit around Venus, a
>> hose with an atmospheric scoop on the end could pump atmosphere into the
>> balloon, until the balloon were pressurised enough.
>
>        MEGAMAID !!!            (Space Balls)

Look! She's turned from suck...to blow!
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From: [e-mail] (christopher williams)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: exploding heads?
Summary: ow! boy, i've got a BAD headache...  *boom*!
Keywords: wheeeeee
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 19 Mar 92 20:25:07 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (UNT USENet Adminstrator)
Organization: University of North Texas
Lines: 7
Originator: [e-mail]

can people's heads REALLY explode? i heard this on the news yesterday.

-cgw-

--
christopher williams   [e-mail]  [phone]
lead programmer/operator, university of north texas
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From: [e-mail] (Mike Newberry)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal,sci.skeptic,sci.space
Subject: Re: The dyslexic insomniac UFO spotter
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 19 Mar 92 20:43:36 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Operator)
Organization: University of Arizona, Tucson, AZ
Lines: 8
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4990 alt.paranormal:4675 sci.skeptic:22000 sci.space:28139

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Frank Stuart Brown) writes:

    [deleted]
>
>    OTCIN ADARAB OTCIN
>

Don't you mean OTCIN ADARAB UTALK ??
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From: [e-mail] (Denise Solis)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.drugs,alt.psychoactives
Subject: ET Tonight / Intrudders
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 19 Mar 92 21:39:14 GMT
Sender: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Denise)
Distribution: ba
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA
Lines: 15
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4991 alt.drugs:23757 alt.psychoactives:755


 For those of you still interested in the UFO phenomenon and related
 subjects.................

 Tonight on Entertainment Tonight at 6:30pm they will be talking about
 Abductions. I don't know all the details on wether this is refering to
 the book (maybe they're making a movie about it) or what.

 Thought you might want to see it.

--
=========================================================================
  All poetry posted is Copyright protected, anything else is just talk.
  "Tis true; theres magic in the web of it." [e-mail]
=========================================================================
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!apple!netcomsv!mork!payner
From: [e-mail] (Rich Payne)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Q&A on Extraterrestrial Abductions and Visitations
Keywords: pig
Message-ID: <8c![e-mail]>
Date: 19 Mar 92 20:35:34 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)
Lines: 49

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Jennifer Bolt) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]>
>[e-mail] (David Carter) writes:
>> Hey Jennifer!
>>
>> What's wrong with a little channeling?
>>
>> The entire hit TV series Green Acres was made possible by
>>
>> channeling the disembodied spirit of some old Martian nobody.
>>
>> Now THAT'S quality viewing, and there are many wise morals worked
>>
>> into the plotlines and eerie predictions that PROVE the script
>>
>> COULD NOT BE THE WORK OF AN EARTHLY ENTITY!!!!!!!
>>
>> The talking pig, Arnold, was actually the 'conduit' these
>>
>> messages were channeled through. Arnold was rather tellingly
>>
>> executed by a Grenedan Guerilla Unit in the late 70's, prompting
>>
>> President Reagan's (admittedly tardy) retribution.
>>
>>
>>
>> Just a theory.
>>
>>
>>
> Actually this theory seems plausible.  Or at least as believable as any
>other acount of channeling.
>
>       Jen
>
>But I wouldn't go Out On A Limb for it !

Yes indeed, this is perhaps the best explanation for Arnold yet.
Although from recent classic channel re-runs, Arnold did not talk.
But they _always_ knew what he was saying. Perhaps we have a
more complex phenonema. Arnold was channeling for some unknown
entity, and the Ziffle's (sp?) were telepathically linked to
Arnold. The dark secrets of the 60's are just now coming out...  :^)


Rich

[e-mail]
Path: ns-mx!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!asuvax!anasaz!qip!morris
From: morris@anasaz (Bob Morris)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories
Subject: Re: Q&A on Extraterrestrial Abductions and Visitations
Message-ID: <1992Mar18.153856.18383@anasaz>
Date: 18 Mar 92 15:38:56 GMT
Organization: Anasazi, Inc.  Phoenix, Az
Lines: 20
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4993 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1194

In [e-mail] (Jennifer Bolt) writes:

>Wake up, The universe is too big, and the distances too great for aliens to
>travel back and forth, that is from the Earth back to where ever.  So no
>aliens have probably come to Earth, although it is almost definite that
>life must exist elsewhere...

There is an implicit assumption here, "time is too short".  Drop that
assumption, and it is possible to travel anywhere without wormholes or
spacewarps or unknown (to us) physics.  You can travel nearly one
light-year in only a year!

Of course, the thought of aliens zipping from here to Alpha-Centauri in
minutes is more entertaining, and isn't that what alien visitations are
all about?

Bob Morris
aka [e-mail]
anasaz![e-mail]
My opinions only, of course...
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!uvaarpa!murdoch!ARBOGASTW
From: [e-mail] (Warren Arbogast)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: RE: Philly is the team to beat!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 20 Mar 92 00:10:45 GMT
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Darden Center, University of Virginia
Lines: 2

With the NBA play-offs just around the corner, I predict that the
Philadelphia Seventy-Sixers will be crowned the NBA's best from all the rest.
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!network.ucsd.edu!munnari.oz.au!metro!grivel!neumann.une.oz.au!daryl
From: [e-mail] (Daryl Essam)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories
Subject: Re: Q&A on Extraterrestrial Abductions and Visitations
Summary: Are our physiologies identical with possible aliens
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 20 Mar 92 00:08:26 GMT
References: <=[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories
Lines: 38
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:4995 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1195

In article <=[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Jon Noring) writes:
> In [e-mail] (Jennifer Bolt) writes:
>
> >Wake up, The universe is too big, and the distances too great for aliens to
> >travel back and forth, that is from the Earth back to where ever.  So no
> >aliens have probably come to Earth, although it is almost definite that
> >life must exist elsewhere...
>
> If the only way to travel from one point in the universe to another point
> is to move through the space between the points, then Jennifer is correct
> because, according to Relativity (either SR or GR), and backed up with
> much experimental evidence, no object of mass can travel through space greater
> than (or even equal to, in reality) the speed of light in a vacuum.
>
> However, has it ever occured to you that it may be possible to alter space
> itself and reduce or even eliminate the space between any two points in space?
>
    <stuff deleted>
    I tend to think of this as wishful thinking. Relativity
is quite depressing, and I wish it did not hold, but at the moment I think
that given the current evidence. Its reasonable to assume that it does.

    However, who is to say that a journey that takes a hundred, even a
thousand years would be considered unreasonable by an alien race. Just some
of the possible options are;

    It is a possiblity that an alien race could enter a state of suspended
animation, either artificially; or it could be an inate ability, in a similar
manner to how some animals hybernate.

    Or, if the race had a long life-span, say a million years or greater,
they could consider a trip to Earth to be the equivalent of having to drive
for an hour to get to work. Or as per 200 years ago, when it took 9 months
(ie 1-2% of their lifetime) to get from England to Australia.

    I'm just saying that the argument seems to be that it takes too long
to go anywhere in space, but too long is a relative term.
                                DE
Path: ns-mx!uunet!bonnie.concordia.ca!nstn.ns.ca!pony.acadiau.ca!ace.acadiau.ca!911414p
From: [e-mail] (PIOTR CEZARY  PROSZYNSKI)
Newsgroups: alt.postmodern,alt.religion.kibology,alt.sex,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: La, la, la...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 20 Mar 92 00:00:10 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENet News)
Organization: Acadia University
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Nntp-Posting-Host: 131.162.3.13

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Po Shan Cheah) writes:

>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Russ Taylor) writes:
>>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Tom Hamill) writes:
>>>In article [e-mail] (Bat Rastard) writes:
>>>>In article [e-mail] (Tom Hamill) writes...
>>>>>In article [e-mail] (David Gundlach) writes:
>>>>>>In article [e-mail] (Daniel Dise) said...
>>>>>>%In article [e-mail] (Bat Rastard) writes:
>>>>>>%>In article [e-mail] (Michael Wasylik) writes...
>>>>>>%>>In article [e-mail] (David Gundlach) writes:
>>>>>>%>>>In article [e-mail] (Bat Rastard) said...
>>>>>>%>>>%In article <[e-mail]> writes...
>>>>>>%>>>%>In article [e-mail] (Tom Hamill) says:
>>>>>>%>>>%>>In article [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>>>>>%>>>%>>>In article [e-mail] (Paul D Evans) writes:
>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>In article [e-mail] (Chris Colby) writes:
>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>In article [e-mail](Lawrence C. Foard) writes:
>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>>In article [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>
>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>>>  GEE, I'M SURE GLAD THAT .SIGNATURE VIRUSES ARE PASSE.
>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>
>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>>They will just mutate to get around it!
>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>
>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>>Evolution is god!
>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>Sanitation is fraud:
>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>Sandinistas ate Maude.
>>>>>>%>>>%>>>Santa Claus baits God.
>>>>>>%>>>%>>>Satan Claws Bates Dog!  Film At Eleven!
>>>>>>%>>>%>>Satin draws mates bod.
>>>>>>%>>>%>I sat in Ward's tame knob.
>>>>>>%>>>%I set a weird time bomb.
>>>>>>%>>>I shed a weird tie, Bob...
>>>>>>%>>I shot a wet teen babe.
>>>>>>%>Izod's a wasp trend, Biff.
>>>>>>%I drove off a west end cliff
>>>>>>I rode to arrest a lift.
>>>>>Electrodes tie my wrists.
>>>>Erode the Mai Tai wisps.
>>>Erotic in tiny sips.
>>Exotic Women in slips!
>Eclectic cows without lips.
Electric eels at my heels.
Path: ns-mx!uunet!world!kibo
From: [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry)
Newsgroups: alt.postmodern,alt.religion.kibology,alt.sex,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: The cascade from Hell rides once again...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 19 Mar 92 23:54:13 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Followup-To: alt.postmodern,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.scientology,alt.sex
Organization: A room filled with typography (in Boston's Back Bay)
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Neal Johnson) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Bat Rastard) writes:
>>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Tom Hamill) writes...
>>>In article [e-mail] (David Gundlach) writes:
>>>>And then in [e-mail] (Daniel Dise) said...
>>>>% In article [e-mail] (Bat Rastard) writes:
>>>>% >In article [e-mail] (Michael Wasylik) writes...
>>>>% >>In article [e-mail] (David Gundlach) writes:
>>>>% >>>And then in [e-mail] (Bat Rastard) said...
>>>>% >>>% In article <[e-mail]> writes...
>>>>% >>>% >In article [e-mail] (Tom Hamill) says:
>>>>% >>>% >>In article [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>>>% >>>% >>>In article [e-mail] (Paul D Evans) writes:
>>>>% >>>% >>>>In article [e-mail] (Chris Colby) writes:
>>>>% >>>% >>>>> In article [e-mail] (Lawrence C. Foard) writes:
>>>>% >>>% >>>>> >In article [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>>>% >>>% >>>>>
>>>>% >>>% >>>>> >>  GEE, I'M SURE GLAD THAT .SIGNATURE VIRUSES ARE PASSE.
>>>>% >>>% >>>>>
>>>>% >>>% >>>>> >They will just mutate to get around it!
>>>>% >>>% >>>>>
>>>>% >>>% >>>>> >Evolution is god!
>>>>% >>>% >>>>> Sanitation is fraud:
>>>>% >>>% >>>>Sandinistas ate Maude.
>>>>% >>>% >>>Santa Claus baits God.
>>>>% >>>% >>>Satan Claws Bates Dog!  Film At Eleven!
>>>>% >>>% >>Satin draws mates bod.
>>>>% >>>% >I sat in Ward's tame knob.
>>>>% >>>% I set a weird time bomb.
>>>>% >>>I shed a weird tie, Bob...
>>>>% >>I shot a wet teen babe.
>>>>% >Izod's a wasp trend, Biff.
>>>>% I drove off a west end cliff
>>>>I rode to arrest a lift.
>>>Electrodes tie my wrists.
>>Erode the Mai Tai wisps.
>He rode the May Day WASPS.
She ate the Payday wrapper.


GEE, THIS IS A WASTE OF BANDWIDTH.  I WISH YOU PEOPLE WOULD STOP IT.
YOU'RE RUINING THE NET FOR *EVERYONE*.
Path: ns-mx!uunet!world!kibo
From: [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry)
Newsgroups: alt.postmodern,alt.religion.kibology,alt.sex,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Stop it!  Stop it!  Stop it!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 19 Mar 92 23:56:38 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Followup-To: alt.sex,alt.fan.john-palmer,alt.fan.monty-python
Organization: A room filled with typography (in Boston's Back Bay)
Lines: 47
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Po Shan Cheah) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Russ Taylor) writes:
>>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Tom Hamill) writes:
>>>In article [e-mail] (Bat Rastard) writes:
>>>>In article [e-mail] (Tom Hamill) writes...
>>>>>In article [e-mail] (David Gundlach) writes:
>>>>>>In article [e-mail] (Daniel Dise) said...
>>>>>>%In article [e-mail] (Bat Rastard) writes:
>>>>>>%>In article [e-mail] (Michael Wasylik) writes...
>>>>>>%>>In article [e-mail] (David Gundlach) writes:
>>>>>>%>>>In article [e-mail] (Bat Rastard) said...
>>>>>>%>>>%In article <[e-mail]> writes...
>>>>>>%>>>%>In article [e-mail] (Tom Hamill) says:
>>>>>>%>>>%>>In article [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>>>>>%>>>%>>>In article [e-mail] (Paul D Evans) writes:
>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>In article [e-mail] (Chris Colby) writes:
>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>In article [e-mail](Lawrence C. Foard) writes:
>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>>In article [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>
>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>>>  GEE, I'M SURE GLAD THAT .SIGNATURE VIRUSES ARE PASSE.
>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>
>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>>They will just mutate to get around it!
>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>
>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>>Evolution is god!
>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>Sanitation is fraud:
>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>Sandinistas ate Maude.
>>>>>>%>>>%>>>Santa Claus baits God.
>>>>>>%>>>%>>>Satan Claws Bates Dog!  Film At Eleven!
>>>>>>%>>>%>>Satin draws mates bod.
>>>>>>%>>>%>I sat in Ward's tame knob.
>>>>>>%>>>%I set a weird time bomb.
>>>>>>%>>>I shed a weird tie, Bob...
>>>>>>%>>I shot a wet teen babe.
>>>>>>%>Izod's a wasp trend, Biff.
>>>>>>%I drove off a west end cliff
>>>>>>I rode to arrest a lift.
>>>>>Electrodes tie my wrists.
>>>>Erode the Mai Tai wisps.
>>>Erotic in tiny sips.
>>Exotic Women in slips!
>Eclectic cows without lips.
Erector sets without screws.



This waste of bandwidth is more fun than humans should be allowed to
have.  We should be sending postcards to Craig Shergold instead.
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!wupost!waikato.ac.nz!aukuni.ac.nz!mercury!nacjack!Craig.O'Neill
From: Craig.O'[e-mail] (Craig O'Neill)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: pts
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 17 Mar 92 07:47:10 GMT
Organization: Aliens, UFO's ??? The Miser's Vault - 649-820-2164
Lines: 7
In-Reply-To: [e-mail] (Scrooge)

This is probley the wrong area but I couldn't find the right one as I am only new to the board. Can you tell me how I gt points for downloads and what is the upload/download ratio on this board. Thanks.

Got to Fly BYE BYE

Craig

---